AIBU to expect to keep my full holiday entitlement?

[namechange0998776554432]

I've just applied to change my hours at work so I finish at 3pm every day, meaning I now work 80% of my full time hours. I was previously entitled to 25 days holiday but they're saying that will reduce to 20
(I.e. 20% less). I understand the logic, but I'm still working every day and losing a whole week's holiday is going to be pretty significant for me. The reason I'm cutting my hours is because I have no childcare outside of school! My pay is already reducing by 20% so taking a weeks leave from me on top seems unfair.

Surely, since in each day I work 20% less hours, when I am on leave I am also taking 20% less leave. So, I should still get 25 days (but am taking 20% less hours each day). I already argued this to HR but they refused, and sent me a policy which very clearly states the calculation and says if you're part time on e.g. 80% hours, you get 80% leave even if you work 5 days a week. This seems wrong to me but they refuse to give in.

Has anyone else been in a similar situation and managed to argue successfully? Am I being unreasonable to expect a bit more from a company who claims to support women who need flexible working arrangements?

Good to hear from someone with direct experience of the same thing, thank you!

Thank you all, I've asked the intern to escalate to her manager and will let you know what they say! Either way I won't be signing until it's changed

@BoneAppleTee nhs (one of the biggest employers) calculates part time workers holidays in hours

I think their policy is assuming that if someone goes part time they will reduce a day, so can still be calculated in days. Which obviously is wrong when it is applied to your situation! Good luck fighting this!

Honestly - it’s fucking ridiculous companies are getting away with this bollocks.

Stand your ground OP - you’re totally correct.

I find that many HR departments are surprisingly useless at doing the basic maths required for part time workers.

the government website seems to suggest weeks.

eg if a full time employee gets 28 days it would be 5.6 weeks. You are entitled to the same number of weeks leave but you work 30 hours as an example. You’d then be entitled to 5.6X30 hours or 168 hours. A full time employee on 37 hours would get 207.2 hours.

if you were doing 30 hours spread over 4 days then you’d get 22.4 days or 4.48 weeks of annual leave. They can’t shaft you when you work 5 days by saying you get fewer days and then also pay you less.

I work a similar pattern to allow me to do pick-ups so five days at reduced hours. I get the same annual leave entitlement in days as other full timers. However those say 25 days of annual leave are based on the reduced hours (say 7 hours per day). If they were to reduce the number of days the OP would lose out twice, reduced pay and reduced annual leave. It is different for those who work full days but do not work certain days of the week.

Yes but that is for part time staff and not full time staff. Full time staff doing set hours over 5 days are calculated in days. I was full time in NHS finance for 5.5 years.

Very few employers calculate in hours for full time staff and for part timers working regular fixed hours over 5 days but other posters were saying it was standard in most places to calculate all holiday in hours even for full time staff and this is just not the case.

Calculating PT staff in hours is fine as long as you're not diddling staff out of 20% holiday pay like OPs HR are doing, as they are combining 2 calculations.

Your HR department sound incompetent. I work a five day week @8 hours a day and get 25 days holiday. My colleague works a five day week but only 6 hours a day and she gets 25 days leave. We both work the same number of days but less hours.

If I take a half day I work 4 hours she works 3 hours.

Your AL is calculated in hours you actually work. You work 10hr less than your 9-5 colleagues you finish at 1500pm, they leave at 5
you work a shorter work week so your Al entitlement reduces too
you can’t expect full a/l when you don’t work a full week

But her holiday pay wouldn't be for a 8hr day a days holiday would be 6hrs.

Companies and HR really struggle to calculate part-timers holidays.
I had our HR calculate my annual leave to 3 decimal places something daft like 12.684 days. I asked how do you book 0.684 of a day?

Nice one @namechange0998776554432 Let us know how you get one with that one. Why should you work 0.8 and get whole time equivalent holiday? That’s so cheeky!! Just do compressed hours over 4 days FFS.

@namechange0998776554432 wins the CF award for the day 🥇

@BoneAppleTee I agree full time staff have holiday allocation in days.
But in my Trust apart time staff have theirs in hours regardless of pattern. I've worked 3 full days for years and always been in hours. Colleagues who work 2 full days also have theres in hours

I honestly don't know if this is a joke or not

If this is genuine then it suggests that you didn't read the OP properly.

Given your “logic” OP

I ma gobsmacked you are in any kind of employment whatsoever.

People don't seem to be grasping. The OP doesn't want the same holiday entitlement as full time staff. They want the correct holiday entitlement for someone working 0.8 FTE over 5 days. So yes, still 25 days but each of those days is 0.8 of a full time employees day.

Are they perhaps going to pay you for a full day rather than 80% per annual leave day? So that if you take a week off you get paid more, but have less days? It's the only way I can see that it would work...

you'll be working 10hr a week less than your ft colleagues
you don’t work FT if you finish 2hour early
You’re a pt worker entitled to prorata holidays allowance
Youll be paid less than FT as you’re requesting part time hours
Youll receive prorata holidays as you work PT
Can you see you’re a part time worker so PT pay and PT holiday allowance

This is correct, as to take a days leave you will use less hours so should still get 5 weeks leave. I used to work in HR calculating leave. It is different if you worked one day less a week, so gave up working on a Friday but as you work monday to friday it will be the same leave.

Eg, you currently get 8 hours a day x 25 = 200 hours so taking a week would be
5 x 8 hours = 40 hours
So if your new hours are 5 hours a day x 25 + 125 hours but to take a week would mean you use only 5 x 5 hours = 25 hours used so both 125 hours and 200 hours al give you the same number of days

Yes in this case you can do the simple process of using day.

The problem is HR are trying incorrectly to reduce days by 20%. By using hours it is easier to illustrate why they are wrong.

Nope, my new salary is exactly 20% less

She’ll be paid for the hours she actually works.Her contract will be amended to reflect the part time hours
no her employer won’t over pay her, why would they?

So your new hours and new salary are 20% less, but you want to keep 100% annual leave?

What is wrong with your brain? Would you like 120% pension?