AIBU to expect to keep my full holiday entitlement?

[namechange0998776554432]

I've just applied to change my hours at work so I finish at 3pm every day, meaning I now work 80% of my full time hours. I was previously entitled to 25 days holiday but they're saying that will reduce to 20
(I.e. 20% less). I understand the logic, but I'm still working every day and losing a whole week's holiday is going to be pretty significant for me. The reason I'm cutting my hours is because I have no childcare outside of school! My pay is already reducing by 20% so taking a weeks leave from me on top seems unfair.

Surely, since in each day I work 20% less hours, when I am on leave I am also taking 20% less leave. So, I should still get 25 days (but am taking 20% less hours each day). I already argued this to HR but they refused, and sent me a policy which very clearly states the calculation and says if you're part time on e.g. 80% hours, you get 80% leave even if you work 5 days a week. This seems wrong to me but they refuse to give in.

Has anyone else been in a similar situation and managed to argue successfully? Am I being unreasonable to expect a bit more from a company who claims to support women who need flexible working arrangements?

I work a similar pattern - 4.5 hours every day and I take my leave in days, but if I book a day off, I use one of my days, not a full day. I think if you work every day, it works like that, if you do 3 days a week over 3 days, then you need it to be expressed in hours in case you take a half day.

I think you are worrying unduly OP, but HR should be able to explain it for you.

Your hr dept needs to apply your holiday in hrs and then you take it in hours.
Simples.

Um, no, sorry. When your hours are pro rata'd, everything is pro rata'd. Including leave.

As someone who has worked 85% hours for 6 years myself, doing the full time role (and more due to staff shortages) for 15% less pay, I understand it's frustrating, but your argument is a bit bonkers.

It should be worked out in hours, so you should have 80% of whatever the full time annual leave allowance is. Mine is something point something hours.

What you're definitely entitled to, in case you didn't know (I wasn't at first) is pro rata bank holidays. So if you're non working day is a day when most BH fall (like me, a Monday) make sure there is a way for you to claim back 80% of the full bank holiday entitlement.

Hm when I went part time (5 days a week, shorter hours) my AL didn’t change because it was expressed in days and one day would be the same length as one AL day if that makes sense? Have you clarified with them how long one AL “day” is on their system? Is it possible they’re doing it in a really roundabout way where the days are expressed as 8 hour periods so when you book a day off it will only actually deduct 0.8 days?

The policy is correct (if you work 80%, you should get 80% of annual leave). They have just implemented it incorrectly.

Well if it was calculated in hours that would be fine because if still get 25 days. The issue is they're mixing up days & hours - I'm working 20% less hours but they're giving me 20% fewer days...

I've found when you're part time you have to be ready to explain this stuff to managers fairly often.

They generally seem to understand non working days over shorter days Monday to Friday.

It needs to be calculated based on hours. So if you were doing a 7.5 hour day, you would get 187.5 hours of holiday or 25 days. You would be then be working 6 hours a day and that would be 150 hours of holiday (80% of FT). 150 hours divided by 7.5 would be 20 days. So in full time language it is 20 days but to you it is still 25 because it’s a 6 hour day.

Oh and I don't have a n

I don't have a non working day / I work five days a week, I just finish at 3pm

Sorry OP I hadn't RTFT. Yes that's strange, it needs to be in hours, it cannot be in days.

But each ‘day’ you take off won’t be a whole day, will it? it’ll be 0.8 of a day.

I think whoever you have spoken to in hr has not explained it well to you. The HR director above is spot on.
I also work 80% and get 80% of the AL entitlement. However I only have to use 4 days to get a whole week off. A bit easier for me as I work 4 full days but in essence it should be the same for you.

I work part time for local government. My Al is counted in hours...pro rata of a full time position. If I take a day off that's 5 hours deducted from my al

No, they've been very clear that I will only be able to take 20 days

To be fair the HR contact who confirmed it to me is an intern, but she sent me the policy which does seem to back up what she said. It looks like I will have to escalate again before I sign the new contract

Exactly!

25 days leave @ 7.5 hours per day = 187.5 hours

You are working 20% fewer hours, so entitled to 150 hours leave

Each time you take a days leave now, you are not working for 6 hours

Your 150 hours leave therefore = 25 of your working days

Their proposal of 20 days = 120 hours so a cut in your leave of 36% not 20%

You are right, their policy is wrong, but you need to demonstrate using the hours breakdown.

Check how much you've already accrued based on the full time hours you have already worked

I once had a part-timer who asked to change from working 4 hours, 5 days a week to working 5 hours, 4 day a week. We then had quite a job explaining to her that her annual leave would then be less days but the same hours!

Statutory holiday entitlement is 5.6 weeks so if you are working 5 days a week like a full time worker then you are entitled to 5.6 of your working weeks off. If they are truly working it out the way you say they are then they are breaking the law by treating a part time worker less favourably than a full time one.

As others have already said...this is why it's much better to do it in hours. So your total number of hours leave will indeed be pro rata but you will take less to cover a working day.

They are right in the 80% but applying it incorrectly - either they calculate in hours and reduce by 20% or they are working in days and as you work 5 days things stay the same - they have confused the two systems.

Could you give them the 2 scenerios worked out and then see what they say?

So you have gone from 25 7.5 hrs = 187.50 hrs holiday and they are suggesting you go to 20 6 hrs = 120 hrs which is 36% reduction in holiday. You think the calculation should be 25 * 6 = 150 hrs which is 20% reduction.

They've just got their maths wrong/confused.

Thank you (mostly) all for giving me the confidence to fight this before I sign agreeing to the change - it's so significant for me I can't let it go without making 100% sure they won't back down.

I've looked up acas and the government calculator but if anyone has any other links that will help me spell it out very clearly to HR I'd appreciate it! (Mumsnet says you're wrong is probably not a very good argument )

I think this is the clearest demonstration to them-perhaps worth drafting an email with your concerns?

That's pretty standard practice. I've also just reduced my hours from 37 to 28. My annual leave went from 30 to 24 days.

How do bank holidays work? you might need to calculate them as I get an allowance for my bank holidays and those that don't fall on my non-working day, I need to book off out of this bank holiday allowance.

I can understand your frustration but you have to be fair and realistic. You're calculating this is days when you need to calculate it on hours.