AIBU to expect to keep my full holiday entitlement?

[namechange0998776554432]

I've just applied to change my hours at work so I finish at 3pm every day, meaning I now work 80% of my full time hours. I was previously entitled to 25 days holiday but they're saying that will reduce to 20
(I.e. 20% less). I understand the logic, but I'm still working every day and losing a whole week's holiday is going to be pretty significant for me. The reason I'm cutting my hours is because I have no childcare outside of school! My pay is already reducing by 20% so taking a weeks leave from me on top seems unfair.

Surely, since in each day I work 20% less hours, when I am on leave I am also taking 20% less leave. So, I should still get 25 days (but am taking 20% less hours each day). I already argued this to HR but they refused, and sent me a policy which very clearly states the calculation and says if you're part time on e.g. 80% hours, you get 80% leave even if you work 5 days a week. This seems wrong to me but they refuse to give in.

Has anyone else been in a similar situation and managed to argue successfully? Am I being unreasonable to expect a bit more from a company who claims to support women who need flexible working arrangements?

You're missing the point though. She's not expecting the same holiday, but the same proportion of holiday.

OP used to get 187.5 hours annual leave per year.

Yes, losing 20% of her work should mean losing 20% of her holiday, so 150 hours, but when a working day is now only 6 hours instead of 7.5, 150 /6 = 25 days!

Her work are saying that she actually should get 120 hours of leave, which is 64% of what she had, or a 36% drop - that's not right.

OP was working 5 days a week and is still working 5 days a week, but somehow it's "right" that she loses a whole week's annual leave?! No chance!

My issue is that the poor communication will be enshrined in my contract if I sign it, since it states 20 days. So I need to get it corrected in writing!

It sounds like whoever has written the policy was only thinking about the scenario of a part-timer working fewer days, rather than reduced hours over the same number of days.

If their policy explicitly says that you are only entitled to 20 calendar days' leave, despite you working less than full-time hours on those days, then your employer is breaking the law because they are expecting you to accept less favourable terms and conditions than your full-time colleagues.

As others have explained, the correct thing for them to do is would be to calculate your leave in hours. If the normal leave entitlement is 25 days and you're 0.8 it's correct that your number of hours leave will be equivalent to 20 full-time days. But each calendar day you take should only 'cost' you 0.8 of the full-time equivalent, meaning that you can stretch your leave over 25 calendar days.

When you were full-time, what happened if you wanted to take a half-day off, did that count as a full day's leave? It's the same principle.

Thank you for the link, again I'm grateful to everyone for giving me the confidence to fight this. I can't help but wonder how many others have just accepted it?

when you go to book a day off, you would usually (if full time) book either 0.5 or 1 for a full or half day

so you'd book 0.8 off to not have to attend work. And use up 4 days if you neeeded to book a week off.

I'd just confirm thats what you do if you want a day off?

(it can be calculated in hours but thats not much help when your holiday booking system is days)

I work for a FTSE 100 company part time - on an 80% basis like you. I work 5 days a week, like you. I get 27 days off per year, exactly the same as my colleagues, because each day off is 6 hours leave, not 8. Our leave is calculated in hours, not days. You are right. Just take all these examples to them . Their maths is wrong! Good luck.

As others have said, it is 20 full days. Therefore if your days are fewer hours you will be still able to take 25 of your days. Part time workers book their leave in hours to avoid this confusion.

and your contract needs to confirm that a day is 7.5 hours but you are working 0.8 of a day.

then its fine. holidays of 20 days would mean - 20 days at 7.5 hours.

This is not true. Her working day is based on what time she starts and finish. So work have done nothing wrong.

You are incorrect.

There is only one thing worse than someone being snotty on here and that's someone who is snotty and incorrect.

It is the same amount of days but less hours.

Hi @namechange0998776554432 give this one a try, it should work well for you: www.moorepay.co.uk/holiday-entitlement-part-time-calculator/

Really sorry you're going through this; it's far too common that part time workers get treated less favourably, but remember that's illegal these days, so you're 100% in the right, don't back down!

Is there anyone else on the same pay grade as you who works full time hours over 5 days? If so, perhaps you can say to them "if X and I both take 1 week off, we would both have 5 days deducted but X would be paid £FullTimeRate and I would be paid £yourrate"?

They are right. You are expecting them to give you full time holiday entitlement on part time hours.

In saying that your employer needs to use a fair system for all employees normally pro rata hours etc. If they are not you possibly have a case.

But each calendar day you take should only 'cost' you 0.8 of the full-time equivalent, meaning that you can stretch your leave over 25 calendar days.

This. Tell them you will take 20 days but as your actual work days are only .8 you will need to take some extra days to get to 20 full days.

20 days is correct. However, when you take one of your 'days' off this won't equate to a full days holiday. So if you take leave one day, you will still be left with 19 days and 2 hours left. If you take leave for two days you have 18 days and 4 hours left etc.

I've done both OP, I've worked less hours over 5 days, and I've worked less days a week (in fact I've done 3 things as I worked reduced hours but over a 9 day fortnight). It's always been worked out as a % proportion of full time but results in the amount of hours to take off my contracted holidays. So say you work 80% if you work 4 days a week then you only need 4 days for a weeks holiday so if you have 25 days (5 weeks) you now need enough for 5 weeks of a 4 day week holiday. By reducing each day you still get 25 days albeit each day is less hours.

They are completely wrong which many people have said.

As soon as I moved away from full time hours, my holidays were calculated in hours, even though technically a day is a day when you do 5 shorter days, you are entitled to the same proportion of time off having dropped your hours.

Hmm, could this be what HR are trying to get at? I very much doubt it but I'll check. I don't see how that can work though, because we have a holiday booking system and I can only book full days, and they're only giving me 20 of them

I had this when I reduced the length of my working days in my old job. I said I’d only sign it if it was clear that my holidays would be paid at 7.5 hours day rate, not the 6 hour day rate i was getting on other work days.

I also explained the hours holiday rather than days holiday thing- I only needed to take 6 hours for 1 days leave when other people needed to take 7.5, so it worked out at the same number of days.

When you book a day off, call it 0.75 of a day or whatever it works out to. I used to work 30 hours over the course of a week but with the days varying, Our experienced HR lady couldn’t cope with it at all and at one point tried to claim I’d had more hours off sick than I was supposed to have worked!

Hmm, could this be what HR are trying to get at? I very much doubt it but I'll check. I don't see how that can work though, because we have a holiday booking system and I can only book full days, and they're only giving me 20 of them

in that case, whilst contractually you are entitled to 20 days (a day being 7.5 hours and would work out to 25 of your 80% days), then when booking on the system, they need to allocate you 25 "days" there if you can only book 1 complete day (i assume no one is allowed half days?)

Ask them if they mean 20 full days (9 to 5 or whatever it is) or do they mean 20 of your new days (9 to 3 or whatever) If it is the first you are OK, if the second it is wrong.

Your holidays and working days both need to be changed to hours.

If your work don't understand this, offer to call ACAS for them. They'll soon look into it.

Is this sex based discrimination since it’s likely to be woman working school hours? Speak to Acas and get their take on it.
But you are 100% right on your entitlement and if I were you I’d not let it drop.

You are working 0.8 FTE so your annual leave should be altered accordingly. Not sure about public holidays though.