To ask you to admit doing the annoying things people on MN complain about?

[GreenLinks]

For an anonymous internet forum, it continually strikes me as odd that people very rarely admit to engaging in the problematic or annoying behaviours complained about on here - it's always someone else doing it, apparently. Whether it's hogging the middle lane on the motorway, having kids who are out of control in public places, being a noisy neighbour or not picking up dog poo, people on MN constantly complain about these things happening around them but if no one on here admits to doing it, who are all these offenders? For example, several people in my neighbourhood are leaving their dog's poo around constantly, but when this is brought up on here every single dog owner loudly exclaims that it it's these dog owners who give them a bad name, that they never go out walking without carrying several bags for good measure! Same with bad driving - people on here love calling out driving pet peeves, but surely at least some people on here are engaging in those very same behaviours e.g. tailgating, driving too slowly or bad parking, that everyone complains about?

Are people on here just squeaky clean or in denial? I admit it, I do hog the middle lane sometimes, there you go 😬

@limitedperiodonly
I first heard the concept of the ‘stand up principle’ thirty or more years ago during discussions of Sunday trading. One trader might get more customers by opening on a Sunday, but if everyone does it no trader gets an advantage and everyone’s overheads increase. (That’s one perspective and I don’t particularly want to get into an argument on Sunday trading). I don’t think I’ve heard the concept called that since, but I think it’s a useful one.
I would be unlikely to ask you to move your bag if other seats were available. However, if I’m in one of the other seats and the next passenger sits next to me because of your bag, you have gained an unfair advantage over me. If I then adopt the habit on future journeys of putting a bag on the seat next to me then passengers are as likely to sit next to you as me. If everyone does it, you don’t have a competitive advantage and life is more unpleasant for anyone getting on a half-full bus including you.

What's wrong with a toilet brush 😳

@MrsK89
I dunno, go about a third of the way back through this thread.

Absolutely nothing. Do a search on here about toilet brushes though and you'll find a whole lot of drivel talked by the bog brush haters.

I co-sleep with my baby and have no plans to “sleep train” her or get her in the cot 🤷🏻‍♀️
I love Christmas, birthdays, Easter and any excuse for a celebration. Hate all the doom and gloomers moaning about xmas every year.
I prefer buying gifts for adults than for children.

But @5128gap and @reigatecastle why do you want to sit next to me, a slim woman, rather than a man (slim or not), or a fat person of either sex or anyone else? We all choose but why would you choose to sit next to a slim woman who looks tame?

The interesting thing is @reigatecastle mentioning manspreaders. All women have experienced this but in what way is a man airing his balls and touching your leg with his that makes you wonder whether it is an accident or deliberate any different to a woman with a handbag. Why don't you say: "Move your legs, mate. I want to sit down."?

I'm all for safety but some people on this thread are boasting about being assertive. I'm assertive so why not do it and sit next to a potentially aggressive man or admit that sometimes you think it's wiser not to. That would be better and more honest than boasting about dumping handbags on the floor or even worse, intimidating people you perceive as weaker than you and bragging about enjoying it? Some people on this thread have done this. Why do that to some people and not to someone else?

Does anyone who insists on their preference to sit where they want (backwards or forwards facing) on public transport do this or do they just pick an easier seat next to a woman who looks like they are not going to argue?

I like public transport which is good because I have no option. It's usually in central London where I live. Other passengers or bus drivers or tube staff are generally okay and some people (including me on occasion) are astoundingly kind.

I would always move my bag if I didn't notice first or swap seats in the middle (no double facing seats on Tubes) so friends can chat or children can sit next to parents. I give directions; offer my seat and have pretended to know a woman who was being scared by a man to come by me.

That was because a woman did it for me 30 years ago and I thought I'd pay it back. It's a brilliant idea because no one is threatened but everyone is embarrassed by the intervention of a middle-aged woman in a public space. It is our superpower. In that small but important way we are more powerful than men.

I'd always welcome a vulnerable person of whatever age or sex to sit next to me on public transport if I thought they were threatened and needed my help.

But I don't like aggression. I don't understand people who boast about claiming their rights which boil down to intimidating someone they don't think can stand up to them.

I am assertive but also defensive and even submissive on occasion. I've learned it makes sense. I am never aggressive and though I don't seek confrontation I will not avoid it.

It's easier to negotiate and not show off.

So if anyone wants to explain why their approach works better than mine then sit by me and chat. To show willing I'd even welcome people like @ReneBumsWombats who whine: "Oh but you've changed your position."

I haven't. I explained other situations as asked but my position remains sound - you don't give up your space for other people unless there is a good reason and there are no other seats available.

TL:DR I'm not moving my bag if there are other seats available.

@NoNameNowAgain that sounds like a pop book tying push economics to the theory of bus seats. Did you write it or just read it? I'm still not letting you sit next to me unless I want.

@limitedperiodonly No, I heard it on the radio. (About Sunday trading and I’m applying the principle here. Have I understood your question?).
As I said, I’d be extremely unlikely to ask you to move your bag.
My argument with you is not that you won’t move your bag, my argument is that you put it there in the first place. None of your whataboutery moves me.
To what extent and in what ways it is legitimate to punish people who violate social norms is another question. I think you are seeing aggression, and victimisation where it just doesn’t exist. The seat next to you is not your space.

@MrsK89 I don't have an official toilet brush. I have a brush to clean the toilet but I never use it to wipe actual shit and much less leave it marinating in a receptacle of bleached water and shit by the side of the loo. That would be revolting.

Don't all normal people do that?

My procedure is to wipe shit above the water line away with a wodge of loo paper and chuck it in. I expect other people to do this and take a dim view of those who do not. Shit streaks below the water eventually flush away so I ignore them apart from putting a bit of paper down after the initial flush for appearance sake..

I have a long handled plastic brush by Addis that I use with bleach about twice a week to scrub stubborn stains. Bleach does not just pretend shit or other organic matter is not there, it breaks it down so I use that as and when.

I use Harpic limescale remover in the loo every fortnight. We are not excessive shitters but we live in a hard water area. That is good for teeth and bones but not for kettles and lavatories. It's swings and roundabouts really.

After this I rinse the brush in very hot water (I might bleach but don't always find that necessary) and leave it to dry thoroughly in a naturally air-circulating environment like the back door or a windowsill. This is the important thing. Basically you want it to dry outside not in the kitchen.

My dog barks.
I don't batch cook.
I vape.
My husband doesn't annoy me even though he farts.

I'm a prolific spender.

And I drive a mile to work

why do you want to sit next to me, a slim woman, rather than a man (slim or not), or a fat person of either sex or anyone else? We all choose but why would you choose to sit next to a slim woman who looks tame

Because I don't want to sit next to a fat bloke (or woman) who spreads onto my seat, either by accident or design. I am not very big and I want my seat for me and not share! I would have thought that was blindingly obvious.

Yes I could ask a bloke to put his legs together, but if he's fat, he's fat and can't do anything about it (at that point in time anyway). So I'll sit next to a slim person if I have the choice.

@NoNameNowAgain I sat here and you sat in a free seat opposite what difference would it make you on a practical basis?

@limitedperiodonly
You haven’t countered my previous arguments.

Most manspreaders aren't fat. Why would you choose to sit next to me rather than them @reigatecastle ? I'd back you up all the way

@NoNameNowAgain I'm so sorry. I did but if you don't think so give me a precise and I will.

*precis, I mean

In short, @limitedperiodonly , the harder it is to find a seat and the greater the effort involved in obtaining one, the more stressful my experience. In addition, once I have sat down people are more likely to sit next to me, if the space becomes available, than you because the seat next to me doesn’t have a bag on it.
The more people follow your example, the worse my experience of public transport will become.
I think I had better unwatch this thread and do something useful.
Have a nice evening.

😄I know exactly how you feel @NoNameNowAgain, life is just too short!

@NoNameNowAgain if you want to sit down just do it. It's a bus.

No need to pompously say: "You haven't countered my previous arguments."

Who do you think you are? Rumpole of the Bailey?