Not forcing my daughter to share her bedroom or stop going out to eat?

[tamarvin]

Right now my sister, her husband, and their three kids (14f, 10m, 5m) are staying with me and my family temporarily while they are waiting on council housing. I have two kids (13f and 11m).

So I have four bedrooms in my house. The first is my own. The second one is my daughters bedroom. The third is my son's bedroom. The last bedroom is the guest room where my sister and her husband are sleeping.

From the first night they were here my son has wanted his 10 year old cousin to sleep in his room. Those two get along very well and enjoy each others company. So we set up my 14 year old niece and my 5 year old nephew in the lounge downstairs. My 5 year old nephew is apparently having a lot of anxiety problem so most of the time he sleeps in the guestroom with his parents.

My niece is unhappy with this arrangement because she feel likes she gets no privacy (downstairs is open plan). To solve this my sister wants me to force my daughter to share her bedroom with my niece. My daughter however is not as close with my niece as the boys are with each other. My daughter and niece have very different personalities. My niece can be loud and intimidating and my daughter on the other hand is very soft spoken. Having so many other people in the house has already been making her feel stressed and overwhelmed. All three boys being younger and energetic can make things feel chaotic. I don't want to force her to give up her only private area to retreat to for peace and quiet.

I told my sister that we can try to add a privacy curtain to a corner of the lounge for her daughter. My sister said that wouldn't help at all because anyone could just barge in. She says that a teenage girl should be able to have access to a lockable room especially in a house full of mostly boys. She doesn't see any issue with the girls sharing even though I told her my concerns. She thinks it would be a good opportunity for them to bond.

Another issue we've run into involved a weekly dinner I do with my kids. So far we've had no issues with regular dinner as we all contribute to the groceries and all the adults take turn cooking. I however would get my takeaway for my kids once a week. I let my them take turns each week to choose what they want. It's a treat at the end of the week that they both look forward too. My sister and her husband have a tight budget so they cannot afford to buy takeaway regularly. While I am a better off financially paying for everyone every week is not feasible as it is already expensive and it would cost double.

I thought that eating takeaway in front of them at home would be cruel though. I've had a little discussion about it with my kids and told them that while my sister and her family are staying with us we would be having our weekly dinner out instead of doing takeaway and eating at home. I thought this was a fair compromise.

My sister did not agree. She says it's obvious that we are going out to eat good food since we leave before dinner and when we come back home we don't eat anything. While my kids won't brag about going out to eat they will answer honestly when my niece or nephews ask where we went. They then end up feeling bad and my sister says they wouldn't feel bad if I just said no to my kids and that it wouldn't hurt my kids to not go out as often. I will also add that on a selfish note I don't want to stop taking them out to eat because its the only time I get to have with just the three of us alone now.

I'd missed this post - you are right. It is heartbreaking.

No, you’re not being unreasonable. Why on earth does a teenage girl need a lockable space anyway?

You’re a generous and loving sister and Aunty for taking them in.

Your niece needs a more private space if this is more than just a few days. If sharing with your daughter is not an option then you could look to making the living room permanently her room - ie not a living room anymore. It would be easier to share with your daughter.

The going out to dinner - you should definitely continue it. As you say - this is a precious alone time for you and your children. I get that your sister wishes she could do the same but you need to enforce this boundary.

You may actually be doing them a favor if you evict them. It will force the councils hand. Talk to your sister about doing this with her consent and as the best solution for everyone rather than because you've had enough of them.

Unless both the sister and BIL are out of work and at rock bottom I find it a bit strange that the BIL hasn't so far stepped up and is quite happy for the OP to provide for his family instead of finding a solution himself.

That’s what I was saying. It’ll be the same situation re the council, be it now or in a years time. So why not do it now?

Most children , by the age of five or six have developed a degree of diplomacy and compassion . This means that your children are likely much more bothered by the upheaval and invasion than they are letting on because they want to be kind and accommodating . Equally , your sisters kids will be right out of sorts as they are the ones homeless. Unless their house burned down I’m assuming they’ve got stuff in storage containers costing them money too.
see , some posters will disagree with me but for the sake of 9 peoples sanity I would do this :
ham up the little boys anxiety with the GP and get a CAMHS referral started .
Tell sister to go back to the council and say that the sofa surfing has run its course and they are no longer welcome. Given the ages of the children , the littlest ones mental health and any other factors you can think of the likelihood is they won’t be placed into a hostel or B&B. They will probably be placed into a ‘void’ property. These are usually undesirable , ugly flats and houses that people aren’t bidding on , properties earmarked for demolition/ redevelopment etc for which a long tenancy can’t be granted. They still have to be safe and habitable and if they are too far from the kids school the council have to pay for transport so they try to avoid that and house within a certain radius.
If they’ve already accepted their duty to the family they have to try and give them a reasonable offer .

You need to have an honest conversation with your sister. Know that you are not in the wrong for trying to provide stability for your children, especially after reading your update about their mum no longer being here.

You are being very kind to your sister and her family by opening your home to them. Your niece and nephew are not your children, they're your sisters. Tough luck if she doesn't like the fact that you take your kids out for a treat once a week - why shouldn't they get that? My cousin's dad was very well off and took them to Florida at least twice a year, there will always be those who have more than us. It is not up to you to provide this nor take away bonding time with your children when you are already providing them with rent free accommodation.

As for the bedroom set up, can your sister not give up that bedroom for the two children and get a sofa bed for the living room? Me and my partner had to do that when we only lived in a one-bedroom apartment with 2 children. Not seeing why that is your daughter's problem to be honest. Couldn't imagine being forced to share my private space with someone i didn't like.

It's obviously not the niece and nephews' fault but equally you are doing what you can - without you they would be in temporary council accommodation which would likely be worse - again personal experience here (4 of us in 2 tiny rooms in a b and b with shared kitchen and bathroom with strangers) not the most fun experience as an 8-year-old.

If OP wanted to put his children first, he shouldn't have agreed to have his sister stay in the first place. If you agree to let someone stay, you agree to welcome them and accept that you will be inconvenienced.

Inconvenience - yes. OP and family are inconvenienced and has accepted that.

What the sister's demands amount to are more than inconvenience - they are colonisation. It is not her house - it is a temporary home where she and her family have been made very welcome, but now are demanding further concessions. It is awful for the nice not to have her own space - but taking precious private space from OP's DD is not the answer. As many others have suggested, the parents could give her the remaining bedroom and they could be the ones to sleep downstairs.

As others have also said, this family won't be considered for re-housing by the council if they have a decent roof over their heads.

It's a horrible situation for everyone, but the emotional blackmail that OP is experiencing is terrible. He's trying to do his best for a very ungrateful bunch of relatives who will, if he concedes even another inch, end up taking several miles.

It sounds like you’ve been incredibly kind and your sister is now being pushy. Her and her DH could sleep in the living room and let their dd have the bedroom. Your family are still feeling the loss of your wife/the children’s mother. Yes of course you should go out to eat. Your sister and her family should appreciate what you’re doing for them.

I think your sister is emotionally manipulative. So basically you can't do anything nice with your kids, without making sure her kids are included too, and presumably paying for it? As well as accommodating them all for a year. She should be offering to pay for nice stuff, not the other way around. They are saving a fortune in rent/mortgage costs.

Exactly this.

Where does OP say he is better off financially with them being there? Have you misread the OP. He says he is better off financially [than his sister's family] for the purpose pf being able to buy his kids a weekly takeaway, not that he is making money from their occupation.

Absolutely agree.

Actually tbh…I’d make my dd share.I think kindness and empathy are more important than protecting your space on a temporary basis.
I don’t think that children can always or should always be precious about their space, and sometimes they just have to share. It’s annoying for her, but temporary.

I’m sure as she’s clearly very keen on her
own private space, she’d understand how her cousin felt. And if she does understand how her cousin feels, then I would expect her to share rather than watch her cousin go through an uncomfortable experience that she herself would hate. She isn’t a toddler or a small child.

The dinner thing though..No you’re fine. Carry on as you are. A comfortable sleep area and privacy for a teenage girl are a lot more fundamental to well being than a takeaway.

*Uncle/brother

Your daughter is mean. She should put herself in her cousins shoes and have some empathy. And you should be leading by example. I’d be ashamed to treat my sister and her children in such a way in their straightened circumstances.

Why should he be ashamed? He has provided a home for five people, is not charging rent, and has had his house turned upside-down. Anyone who has had to stay with relatives/ have relatives stay with them due to force of circumstance will know that your home is not your own in this situation - and that is even when it is for comparatively short periods of time.

And I'll bet you wouldn't be so keen if it really was you, and your DD didn't particularly get on with your niece, and you just wanted FIVE MINUTES PEACE in your own home - and you had a minimum of 8 months further chaos to look forward to.

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Your daughter is mean. She should put herself in her cousins shoes and have some empathy. And you should be leading by example. I’d be ashamed to treat my sister and her children in such a way in their straightened circumstances.

Until OP states otherwise we're to assume he and his sister had a discussion and knew exactly what the sleeping arrangements would be prior to them moving in.

Dar say OP wasn't holding his sisters arm up her back forcing her to move in.

Thank you. @BitossiBlues

I was so angry when I read this remark (especially on top of a PP calling the DD "mean" that I was about to post something that would probably have got banned!

You have covered the points I wanted to make but done it with calm deliberation that I am rapidly losing seeing OP and his DD criticised when they have done a hell of a lot to make the family welcome.

We don't know why they are homeless - it may be through no fault of their own, and however it's happened it's horrible for them - but OP isn't responsible for them - not to the detriment of his own family.

Your daughter is grieving the loss of her mother, and now her home is filled with another family. You’ve already said that she is overwhelmed and needs private space - don’t compromise her mental health by forcing her to give that up.

Until your sister’s family are rehoused, the answer is for your niece and the younger child to share the spare bedroom (is there any way to divide the room with cheap shelving?), and your sister and husband sleep downstairs.

Your house your rules if they don't like it they know where the door is.

The sister and her dh could do the same as the op is doing with his children. Once a week spending quality time together as their family unit doing something they enjoy.

Exactly!

They may not be able to afford "good food" (whatever that is), but they could surely g.et in some pizzas, have a Macdonalds, get the Trivial pursuit out (or whatever) or a DVD and have their own family time in the couple of hours that OP is out with his children.

If it was me I'd be wishing my host ate out every night if I was in this situation, even if we were just having beans on toast.

Absolutely true @TheClogLady

Also agree with @MarieIVanArkleStinks

Has your daughter not enough to contend with.

I actually cannot believe a father would do this to his children.....for a year.

So unbelievable.

Two of my childhood friends lost their mothers age 9/10 and the trauma has NEVER left them and we are cruising for 60.

Only in their late 30's and 40's did they fully confide their MH struggles in their teens.

Beyond brutal.
The grief seeped into everything.

The OP'S daughter needs her privacy desperately.

Unbelievable thread.🙄