Not forcing my daughter to share her bedroom or stop going out to eat?

[tamarvin]

Right now my sister, her husband, and their three kids (14f, 10m, 5m) are staying with me and my family temporarily while they are waiting on council housing. I have two kids (13f and 11m).

So I have four bedrooms in my house. The first is my own. The second one is my daughters bedroom. The third is my son's bedroom. The last bedroom is the guest room where my sister and her husband are sleeping.

From the first night they were here my son has wanted his 10 year old cousin to sleep in his room. Those two get along very well and enjoy each others company. So we set up my 14 year old niece and my 5 year old nephew in the lounge downstairs. My 5 year old nephew is apparently having a lot of anxiety problem so most of the time he sleeps in the guestroom with his parents.

My niece is unhappy with this arrangement because she feel likes she gets no privacy (downstairs is open plan). To solve this my sister wants me to force my daughter to share her bedroom with my niece. My daughter however is not as close with my niece as the boys are with each other. My daughter and niece have very different personalities. My niece can be loud and intimidating and my daughter on the other hand is very soft spoken. Having so many other people in the house has already been making her feel stressed and overwhelmed. All three boys being younger and energetic can make things feel chaotic. I don't want to force her to give up her only private area to retreat to for peace and quiet.

I told my sister that we can try to add a privacy curtain to a corner of the lounge for her daughter. My sister said that wouldn't help at all because anyone could just barge in. She says that a teenage girl should be able to have access to a lockable room especially in a house full of mostly boys. She doesn't see any issue with the girls sharing even though I told her my concerns. She thinks it would be a good opportunity for them to bond.

Another issue we've run into involved a weekly dinner I do with my kids. So far we've had no issues with regular dinner as we all contribute to the groceries and all the adults take turn cooking. I however would get my takeaway for my kids once a week. I let my them take turns each week to choose what they want. It's a treat at the end of the week that they both look forward too. My sister and her husband have a tight budget so they cannot afford to buy takeaway regularly. While I am a better off financially paying for everyone every week is not feasible as it is already expensive and it would cost double.

I thought that eating takeaway in front of them at home would be cruel though. I've had a little discussion about it with my kids and told them that while my sister and her family are staying with us we would be having our weekly dinner out instead of doing takeaway and eating at home. I thought this was a fair compromise.

My sister did not agree. She says it's obvious that we are going out to eat good food since we leave before dinner and when we come back home we don't eat anything. While my kids won't brag about going out to eat they will answer honestly when my niece or nephews ask where we went. They then end up feeling bad and my sister says they wouldn't feel bad if I just said no to my kids and that it wouldn't hurt my kids to not go out as often. I will also add that on a selfish note I don't want to stop taking them out to eat because its the only time I get to have with just the three of us alone now.

Your sister is a cheeky fucker of the highest order and she is taking advantage of you. Please do not let her daughter share a room with yours.
Why have you let them stay for a year? How will the council magically sort housing after 1 year, I doubt they will ever house them as they are staying with you so they won't consider them homeless. Also, even though they are not paying rent they will be considered tenants because you have let them stay so long and you may have problems if they won't leave voluntarily.

This isn't good for your kids. As others have said, this will go on for years. The local authority will not prioritise anyone who has accommodation. Will you be happy with them sharing your house this time next year as that is likely to be the case unless you aske them to leave?

Your sister is clearly used to this dynamic of throwing her weight around and you relenting, but now is the time to stand up to her. Sounds like your own family has been through enough upheaval. If your sis wants her daughter to have her own room then she should of course give up hers.

And of course you don’t need to eat every meal together and spend every second together. How would you even manage that for a year?! Stick to your guns and prioritise your children in these small ways as you have all made huge sacrifices for your sister and her family already.

And besides, if you make them too comfortable, you’ll never get rid of them!

Can you evict someone you don’t have a legal contract with?

You’ve done a nice thing for your sister OP but I think you were naive at best as to how things would work out. A 4 bed house is not really big enough to accommodate 3 adults and 5 kids for an entire year. I think you need to put your kids first now and explain to your sister that things are not working out as you’d hoped and all the children involved are not happy with the current living situation. I’d give her another month to sort out accommodation for them but they need to leave.

Is this a serious post? I can only assume you are either the sister or a CF yourself!
Op, ignore this BS, you have been more the accommodating to your sister and her family. If her mother is that concerned about your niece having a space in a closed room she or her husband can swap with her.

This is only going to get worse, I'm guessing your Sister is used to bossing you around?

I think you're very generous op.

But this situation is in nobody's best interests. You've been living together so far throughout a very dry and warm summer when you'll have had plenty of opportunity to get out and about. Living on top of one another during autumn/ winter sounds utterly soul destroying. Your sister doesn't sound like she appreciates the support you've given her so far and the tremendous upheaval to your lives. Time for an honest conversation.

Blimey, your house, you've been very kind to accommodate them, compromised on the takeaway issue and your sister wants to run the show! The sense of entitlement is awful. You've done nothing wrong and should stick to your guns.

You are doing a massive favour here but you must consider your own daughters needs first or this could come back to bite you in a big way. Your children are amazing to have coped pretty well with such enormous changes in their home. Your generosity could even come back to bite you later on with your relationship with your sister as she seems very entitled and doesn't seem to appreciate the generous sacrifices you and your children are making. It is hard for a teenage girl not to have her own space so I have a possible solution. See how your sister feels about letting her DD have the bedroom she and her husband currently occupy. Your ds and DH could still keep their clothes in there, go up to get changed ext but other than that the space would belong to your dear neice. You are making many sacrifices for her family, I wonder how your sister would feel about making this sacrifice for her daughter. 🤔

I’m not sure why your visitors can’t afford to pay for a takeaway once a week when they have no housing costs and presumably two working adults?

You can definitely evict them regardless of their ‘status’ in your home and this may speed up council housing availability.

I feel sorry for you and all the children involved.

I hope you can resolve things soon.

As OP lives in the house I assume that his sister’s family will be, at best, treated as lodgers.

If that is the case he can give notice ( normally somewhere between 1 and 4 weeks), and if they don’t leave he can change change the locks when they are out. He would be well advised to get specific legal advice before taking any action.

I really hope it doesn’t get to that stage though as it seems quite brutal and is likely to cause a permanent rift.

OP will also have to stand firm as the LA is likely to try to put a LOT of pressure on him to let them back in if they present themselves to the LA as homeless as a result.

I have offered you what I can already. If that isn't enough for you then you will have to look elsewhere.

That should be your response in a nutshell. Perfect. No explanation, no justification needed. The polite way to say "you're being a CF"

Throw the problem back to them. Your niece is unhappy with the situation. What are they going to do about it then?

Presumably they will have been saving money by living with you for 4 months. Use that to pay the deposit for a private rental. Or throw them out and they throw themselves on the mercy of the council - which will have to happen in a year anyway, because they won’t have been rehoused in that time, as they have adequate housing.

So many assumptions on this thread with no actual detail on those assumptions from the op.
we don’t no why they are homeless.
thank god for family like his who put them up.it’s not easy but he’s obviously seen them in dire need,I don’t think that can ever be a bad thing.ok it’s seen to not be working how they wished.but god give both sides a break here.
the sister bossing him about.where has there been any hint of this. I think there is two sides to this story and both are struggling.
and why are we thinking it’s not ok for the dd to have no space but it is brattish and domineering for the niece to even whisper for it.
lots of blame on this family who of course should be bending over backwards to be grateful.but life’s not that simple.not when you have to live alongside others or have been made homeless and I’m sure would bloody love a place of your own. I doubt the family is scrounging or would choose this or be waiting it out,dossing not being housed.

They don’t have adequate housing - they are simply sofa surfing in a house where they have no tenancy agreement and pay no rent.

They are effectively homeless and if they wish to be housed in local authority housing the OP can evict them. They may have to be prepared to accept hostel accommodation while waiting for rehousing.

I'd be telling them to leave my house, you are going above and beyond already and your sister and her family are acting very ungratefully

If they’re so concerned, they can share with their daughter. Absolutely do not force her on your daughter.
your sister is an ungrateful, entitled bully.

YABU to expect a 14 year old girl to sleep in the living room. Not ok. You invited them in- DD needs to share.

I think going out once a week for a meal is fair enough.

everybody is saying how kind you are and what a CF your sister is being. But you say you are better off financially with them there. Are they paying rent?

What about your sister giving up her room to her daughter?

On no, much easiet to bully her foolish brother and his daughter.

You actually think you may have to evict them after a year?

That that is a possibility is unbelievable, and you are allowing a full year of your childrens lives be impacted by this madness?

Not allowed take out food, not allowed to eat out, watching what you buy your children?

Unbelievable.

Easy to see how you got jammed up in this situation.

I feel so sorry for your children.

What a mess.

They really don't deserve you moving in their CF aunt and her family into THEIR home.

You are very very wrong.

Agreed!

Their world has turned upside-down with the loss of their mam. They don't need it turned inside-out as well.

The boys are happy sharing - that's fine. The girls doesn't want to share - that is her right.

Maybe she wants privacy to talk to her late mam - I talk to mine and she died 18 years ago. Maybe she wants to have a weep in privacy. Maybe she just wants to be ALONE - to have some space in her own home away from invading family.

The girls aren't likely to "bond" if she is forced to accept her cousin into her room - on the contrary, it is likely to breed resentment and actual dislike. Her cousin will borrow her clothes without permission, go through her things, take her books and precious possessions and use/abuse them. (You know she will - no matter what anyone says, this child will have her mothers entitlement and demand "sharing".)

It will NOT end well - especially for your DD OP if you allow this, Protect her privacy, protect your family "special meal" tradition, protect your family space - emotional and physical.

If your sister isn't happy, then she can find an alternative whach doesn't involve living with you.

What about your sister giving up her room to her daughter?

which room is that? The one she is already sharing with her DP and a 5 year old?

I honestly don't know what the answer is. I can see a logic to the girls sharing.

Lots of people seem to be forgetting that the parents are already sharing with their 5 yo.
Is it appropriate for the teen girl to share with 5 yo brother?

Are the bedrooms actually big enough to house that many people. Many 4 bedroom houses are built with 2 doubles and 2 single rooms. Which suit modern families.

Op this will either make for really close bonds between the cousins or completely break them.

I definitely wouldn't sacrifice your dinner out, and tell sister it's as much about alone time as it is about the food.

Are sister and bil pulling their weight with the cooking and cleaning?

We stayed with ILs for 6 mths it was, meant to be 6 weeks, delays with our new house. It was so hard for everyone. We were sick of the sight of each other by the time it was over.

Exactly that.
Let the parents sleep on the sofa and their daughter and 5 year old can share.

OP's daughter should not be forced to share HER only private space in HER home that her foolish father has offered up to his CF sister.

People need to stop pressing OP for the reasons his sister became homeless. He clearly has no intention of responding. He's also just as clearly a decent and kind man who stepped up to meet a family member in her time of greatest need. Despite her later reprehensible behaviour he's not going to compromise her privacy by detailing her circumstances all over the internet, and rightly. It's not our business, and we don't need to know.

Some replies to this thread are amazing. Want proof of the old adage 'no good deed goes unpunished' and you need go no further than scrolling up. How anyone can claim, the OP's having sacrificed the peace and privacy of his home and taken the financial hit (that has to have happened with five extra bodies to accommodate and feed), that he's treating his sister's family 'poorly' simply by retaining some small vestiges of familiar routine with his own bereaved children makes me wonder if I occupy a completely different planet to some of these people.

'Common' decency is evidently not all that common, but I'm betting those posters would be the first to have a tantrum of Vesuvius proportions were their socially awkward daughter expected to give up her space and both children the small luxury of a weekly meal and a proportion of their Christmas gifts into the bargain. At their young ages haven't they already received a stark enough lesson that life is unfair?

OP, this is where your kindness has brought you. I'm not even going to comment on your sister's behaviour, other than to say it's all the more reason to double down and ensure your children are now prioritized having already given up so much. They must be facing an everyday, painful reminder of what it would be to have their own mother fighting their corner as their sister does for their cousins. My heart goes out to them.