Not forcing my daughter to share her bedroom or stop going out to eat?

[tamarvin]

Right now my sister, her husband, and their three kids (14f, 10m, 5m) are staying with me and my family temporarily while they are waiting on council housing. I have two kids (13f and 11m).

So I have four bedrooms in my house. The first is my own. The second one is my daughters bedroom. The third is my son's bedroom. The last bedroom is the guest room where my sister and her husband are sleeping.

From the first night they were here my son has wanted his 10 year old cousin to sleep in his room. Those two get along very well and enjoy each others company. So we set up my 14 year old niece and my 5 year old nephew in the lounge downstairs. My 5 year old nephew is apparently having a lot of anxiety problem so most of the time he sleeps in the guestroom with his parents.

My niece is unhappy with this arrangement because she feel likes she gets no privacy (downstairs is open plan). To solve this my sister wants me to force my daughter to share her bedroom with my niece. My daughter however is not as close with my niece as the boys are with each other. My daughter and niece have very different personalities. My niece can be loud and intimidating and my daughter on the other hand is very soft spoken. Having so many other people in the house has already been making her feel stressed and overwhelmed. All three boys being younger and energetic can make things feel chaotic. I don't want to force her to give up her only private area to retreat to for peace and quiet.

I told my sister that we can try to add a privacy curtain to a corner of the lounge for her daughter. My sister said that wouldn't help at all because anyone could just barge in. She says that a teenage girl should be able to have access to a lockable room especially in a house full of mostly boys. She doesn't see any issue with the girls sharing even though I told her my concerns. She thinks it would be a good opportunity for them to bond.

Another issue we've run into involved a weekly dinner I do with my kids. So far we've had no issues with regular dinner as we all contribute to the groceries and all the adults take turn cooking. I however would get my takeaway for my kids once a week. I let my them take turns each week to choose what they want. It's a treat at the end of the week that they both look forward too. My sister and her husband have a tight budget so they cannot afford to buy takeaway regularly. While I am a better off financially paying for everyone every week is not feasible as it is already expensive and it would cost double.

I thought that eating takeaway in front of them at home would be cruel though. I've had a little discussion about it with my kids and told them that while my sister and her family are staying with us we would be having our weekly dinner out instead of doing takeaway and eating at home. I thought this was a fair compromise.

My sister did not agree. She says it's obvious that we are going out to eat good food since we leave before dinner and when we come back home we don't eat anything. While my kids won't brag about going out to eat they will answer honestly when my niece or nephews ask where we went. They then end up feeling bad and my sister says they wouldn't feel bad if I just said no to my kids and that it wouldn't hurt my kids to not go out as often. I will also add that on a selfish note I don't want to stop taking them out to eat because its the only time I get to have with just the three of us alone now.

A year????
they won't be housed while they live with you, you know that right?
unless you actively want your family living with you indefinitely you need to call an end to this sooner rather than later.

A year is a very long time and it sounds like your sister hasn’t realised/ cares that you and your family are also impacted by the arrangement. She is a guest and doesn’t get to make demands.

I would also question the likelihood of council accommodation be offered to your sister while she is being housed by you.

Sit down with your sister and her H and reaffirm your boundaries. Those boundaries are not up for discussion. If she has difficulties with accepting them, tell her you wouldn’t be offended if she chose to seek alternative living arrangements elsewhere.

You made a generous offer but I feel that your sister’s personality and sense of entitlement is going to make things very difficult.

What a shitshow, I haven't got through the whole thread but Op what you have done is incredibly kind.

I agree with others that you housing them could cause issues with the council but in the meantime could I suggest 2 things that could help?

I am not sure if this has been suggested but could your sister buy a bunk bed with single on the top and double on the bottom, that way sis, husband and 5yo in bottom bunk and niece on top, everyone gets a bed and their privacy.

Second suggestion. If you have a drive or big enough garden could your sis buy a caravan for her, husband and 5yo to sleep in and niece have the guest room?

As for the meals out, please dont let your sis stop you from doing that, it is not your kids fault their house has been taken over and they deserve some time alone with you.

The year thing is a bit worrying. Are they taking any steps to sort accomodation? They need to be pushing now to get somewhere and be telling the council that you are overcrowded and they can't stay.

It would be much better for everyone if they could get a house sooner so I think they need to push and push and keep pointing out that they are living in very little space because they are relying on your generosity which is about to run out

Having said that, in the meantime do you have a dining room? Is your downstairs totally open? It would be better to put your niece in a dining room if you have one. Just so she has a little bit of privacy.

I definitely don't think the DD should share her room.

But also the DN has been made homeless and is now sleeping on in the living room of someone else's house through no fault of her own.

I'd be making the the adults sleep in the living room, and the niece can have her own room. The five year old can then go either with the parents or his sister.

Surely in a year when you ask them to leave they'll have to go into emergency accommodation before getting a council house? Wouldn't it be better to start that ball rolling now, or give them the deposit for a private rental?

And of course you should keep going out to eat! If your sister raises it again, tell her you could get two takeaways a week, but have been choosing not to do that in front if her DC as it would be mean for them to realise they weren't having pizza when the delivery arrived.

I think you have good boundaries: prioritising your own children's (and your own) needs for privacy and family time, but being considerate to your sister and her family where that doesn't conflict with your needs.

Best bedroom solution would be for your sister and her DH to take the living room, although do you actually have a sofa bed in the living room, so 2 adults could sleep there? You might be able to find one on ebay - might be a squash to fit in but you probably need more seating in there now. And a privacy curtain around that for night time.

Re Christmas, don't let your current feeling of seige blind you to an opportunity here. Surely the silver lining to this difficult situation is the joy of the 2 families being together, and the cousins getting a closer family bond than they otherwise would. Christmas is very much a time for extended family. I'd enjoy what will (hopefully!) be your only Christmas living together with your sister's family.

Think through the practicalities:
1 Do you do stockings for the kids? You probably will need to sub your nephews and niece but you can keep it cheap and it will be really fun for all the kids to open together

2 Likewise advent calendar. Cadburies chocolate one is £1

3 Speak to your sister about budget for kids presents so that the families standardise

4 That may well mean your kids having fewer presents from you this year. But I do think that one year of not having so many presents is worth it for the fun of properly sharing Christmas with their cousins. Do talk to them about it!

5 There may be a way for you to discreetly give them a bit more at other times instead. When are their birthdays? Could you give their grandmother an extra present to give each of them (would she be understanding?)

If you attach a sketch of your open-plan downstairs, people here might have a suggestion about how to partition off an area.

Wow! You really think he should be ashamed to house his sister, her husband and her 3 kids for a year. Give your head a wobble!!

The daughter should be thankful she has an uncle prepared to take them in!

Some people on this thread should be utterly ashamed of themselves!

Think through the practicalities:

I disagree with all the points after this. OP should carry on doing what he usually does with his kids so long as he doesn't flaunt it.

1 He doesn't need to sub the other stockings - his sister can do those. They can open them in the bedroom together.

2 Maybe on the advent calendar front is discuss getting similar with sis.

3 Speak to your sister about budget for kids presents so that the families standardise
So OPs kids miss out? Not only do they have to put up with a whole extra family living with them but they have to continue making sacrifices

4 fun of properly sharing Christmas with their cousins.
Really? It doesn't sound like it will necessarily be fun with their aunt imposing her rules

5 Could you give their grandmother an extra present to give each of them
OPs eldest is a teen. She will see through this.

Honestly I would definitely go to your in laws for Christmas day if you can.

It is your house. You are doing them a favour. You make the rules.

Why would OP now have to buy their kids Christmas stockings, or reduce own kids presents.
those kids have two parents who are not meeting their needs at the moment. Why not?

are they working? if yes, they should be getting sorted for rental, and can certainly buy their kids gifts or takeaway
if not working, why not?

why have they not gone to council already? What happened to their previous accommodation?

it’s likely OP was put under pressure to house them ( he’s now being put under pressure to stop treating his own kids, and force his daughter to share a room). He was likely pushed by his sister to accommodate the 5 of them. Those posters who say ‘ you agreed to this so now you must sacrifice you and your kids everything for them’ nonsense need to get a grip. It’s highly likely that the OP and his daughter certainly do not want them there, and would like their home back to themselves!

I think everyone on here is assuming that you have a normal 'supportive but separate' family relationship with your sister.

But as a pp said, it does depend a bit on how supportive she was when your wife died. If she was sympathetic and supportive, but just in the usual way, then I think your boundaries are right.

But if she went above and beyond: eg took your kids into her home for 6 months, or did all the school runs and holiday care for years - treating your kids as if they were her own - then she'd be entitled to expect you to treat her kids equally to yours now that they're all in your home.

Lol, ‘Blitz spirit’, like the sister’s attitude is emblematic of that. Unless of course you think displaced people demanded their hosts provide even more of their home than what they were already given, and complained if they had to sleep in communal areas.

Given that OP and his sister aren’t being carpet bombed, and she does in fact have other options available, I’m not sure the situations are particularly analogous.

“Surely the silver lining to this difficult situation is the joy of the 2 families being together, and the cousins getting a closer family bond than they otherwise would.”

If by ‘joy’ you mean ‘I’m pretty sure Dante wrote about this in Inferno’, then yes.

Omg a year is too long and there’s no guarantee they’ll get a council house at the end. Where were they living before? If they’ve stayed with you for 4 months already - and I assume they haven’t paid rent, bills, food etc - then haven’t they saved some money? Could you help them find somewhere within their budget? Do they work? What about her dh family - can they stay with them up for a while?

This sounds too hectic. 4 months is long enough. You’ve gone above and beyond and your sister and her Dd don’t sound very appreciative. I would ask them to leave within the next week or two. Give them a deadline. Definitely a few weeks before Christmas.

OP you've been incredibly kind letting them stay for a year I think 6 months would have been generous enough, as other pp's have said the council won't house them if they're living with you. I do feel sorry for your niece as she's at an awkward age, could the two older boys sleep downstairs and your niece have their room? They're younger and probably wouldn't mind the lack of privacy although I understand it's not really fair if your ds has to give up his room. Your sister is being ungrateful and needs to butt out, carry on taking your dc out for a meal whatever you do. Good luck and hope everything works out for you.

You sound lovely, OP, and your sister sounds like a grabby malcontent who is riding the fat wave of bitterness that can often accompany the realisation that you need help from others when your own life nosedives for whatever reason.
If you were putting my family up I'd be so bloody grateful I'd be doing all the washing, cleaning, cooking etc.

Why cant they privately rent? Presumably that's what they were doing before and therefore have their deposit back and the monthly rent saving?

They must have saved 4 months worth of pay now, and should move out to rental, I would give them a month to sort out. Then you can have your own separate family space returned by December.

OP should carry on doing what he usually does with his kids so long as he doesn't flaunt it.

Opening vastly different value stockings and presents together is flaunting it. I would certainly do this for my own nephew and niece. I feel that personal space and parent-child time (which OP is asking about) are much more important hills to die on than Christmas gifts. Pretty sure my DD would agree.

If by ‘joy’ you mean ‘I’m pretty sure Dante wrote about this in Inferno’, then yes.
😂
My adult niece lived with us for a while. I know it's a totally different situation with none of the tensions, but it was absolutely brilliant.

How is it feasible for a 5 year old to sleep in the living room? He's probably in bed by 8 at the latest. That means the living room is out of bounds from early evening?

It's probably not right he shares with his teen sister either but it's better than him in the living room.

I do feel for the neice she really has got the shitty end of the deal.

I agree they should be looking to move out ASAP. But then we don't know why they are staying with Op, maybe part of it is to give them a chance to save for a house deposit.

But the boys in the living room isn't ideal either. They will be in bed before any of the adults. And if they are anything like my boys they'll be a bundle of lego to consider.