Not forcing my daughter to share her bedroom or stop going out to eat?

[tamarvin]

Right now my sister, her husband, and their three kids (14f, 10m, 5m) are staying with me and my family temporarily while they are waiting on council housing. I have two kids (13f and 11m).

So I have four bedrooms in my house. The first is my own. The second one is my daughters bedroom. The third is my son's bedroom. The last bedroom is the guest room where my sister and her husband are sleeping.

From the first night they were here my son has wanted his 10 year old cousin to sleep in his room. Those two get along very well and enjoy each others company. So we set up my 14 year old niece and my 5 year old nephew in the lounge downstairs. My 5 year old nephew is apparently having a lot of anxiety problem so most of the time he sleeps in the guestroom with his parents.

My niece is unhappy with this arrangement because she feel likes she gets no privacy (downstairs is open plan). To solve this my sister wants me to force my daughter to share her bedroom with my niece. My daughter however is not as close with my niece as the boys are with each other. My daughter and niece have very different personalities. My niece can be loud and intimidating and my daughter on the other hand is very soft spoken. Having so many other people in the house has already been making her feel stressed and overwhelmed. All three boys being younger and energetic can make things feel chaotic. I don't want to force her to give up her only private area to retreat to for peace and quiet.

I told my sister that we can try to add a privacy curtain to a corner of the lounge for her daughter. My sister said that wouldn't help at all because anyone could just barge in. She says that a teenage girl should be able to have access to a lockable room especially in a house full of mostly boys. She doesn't see any issue with the girls sharing even though I told her my concerns. She thinks it would be a good opportunity for them to bond.

Another issue we've run into involved a weekly dinner I do with my kids. So far we've had no issues with regular dinner as we all contribute to the groceries and all the adults take turn cooking. I however would get my takeaway for my kids once a week. I let my them take turns each week to choose what they want. It's a treat at the end of the week that they both look forward too. My sister and her husband have a tight budget so they cannot afford to buy takeaway regularly. While I am a better off financially paying for everyone every week is not feasible as it is already expensive and it would cost double.

I thought that eating takeaway in front of them at home would be cruel though. I've had a little discussion about it with my kids and told them that while my sister and her family are staying with us we would be having our weekly dinner out instead of doing takeaway and eating at home. I thought this was a fair compromise.

My sister did not agree. She says it's obvious that we are going out to eat good food since we leave before dinner and when we come back home we don't eat anything. While my kids won't brag about going out to eat they will answer honestly when my niece or nephews ask where we went. They then end up feeling bad and my sister says they wouldn't feel bad if I just said no to my kids and that it wouldn't hurt my kids to not go out as often. I will also add that on a selfish note I don't want to stop taking them out to eat because its the only time I get to have with just the three of us alone now.

A YEAR! JFC, op, this is untenable. Your sister needs to find other arrangements.

I just wrote long response and lost it. In summary:

1. Room divider I used when hosting lots of kids in one room recently. It acted as a dressing room:

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2. Do not make daughter share. No way. The fact that son wants to share is a bonus to their family for which she should be grateful. Trying to copy/paste that to daughter is taking the piss.

3. Does your sister take an "I know best" approach with you regarding your children? she I think I'm getting that vibe. Do not let her steam roll you in this. Do not stop your lovely once a week meal out tradition with your children. It's important that you get that one-time-per-week to yourselves in context of year-long house guests.

My messed up sentence above meant to ask you if your sis sees herself as the matriarch figure for both families?

I don't think its reasonable for a married couple to have to sleep in a communal area for a year. That's a ridiculous suggestion.

It’s perfectly reasonable if they want their daughter to have a shared room, the daughter can share with their other sibling. It’s not a hotel where rooms are being booked and paid for. It would seem the alternative is the street or shelter and then they are not going to have a room to themselves, how ridiculous! You can’t land yourself on other people and then dictate that you want a private room and how you want current living and sleeping arrangements rearranged to suit/benefit yourself - that’s unreasonable!

Are both the parents working?
I'm curious how they ended up homeless.

I would go for a walk with your sister and have a very firm chat with her about boundaries. I would start by stating that you are the one doing her the favour and she doesn’t get to make demands like asking that her daughter go into your daughter’s room or guilt trip you about take-always, etc. You already had little family traditions in place and they’re not going to change. While on the subject of traditions. Tell her about your plans for Christmas. Let her know what you intend to do for her family re presents (even if it’s something along the line of “I’ve been covering all your family’s food and bills and will continue to do so until you get a place of your own. How’s that going, then?”

I would expect DD to share in this situation.

As chaotic as it is for her it's a million time worse for your nice and through no fault of her own. Would you not want DD to have that is she was homeless?
Going out for dinner is reasonable though. You want some alone time as a family too. So it makes sense.

You'd make your sister & her kids homeless right before Christmas?

some peoples families are so very different than my own.

Your daughter needs her space and you and your children need time together. Don't make your daughter share her room and carry on going out for dinner each week. If your sister doesn't like it then she can find alternative accommodation. I am sure they are not happy with the way they are living but it is for them to make changes not you. You have been very kind to house your sister's family and you and your children have had to make compromises for them, which they don't sound like they appreciate.

OP, your children are children for such a short while.

Before you know it your Dd will be a teenager… This arrangement is suffocating your own family life.

How can they all get enough space and peace to do homework? Your sister really needs to think about this for her 14 year old.

I can’t believe your sister is making these choices.

And I don’t see what will magically change after a year that can’t change now.

I don't think you're wrong at all.

Forcing your DD to give up her little slice of peace in, what is, an extremely busy home at the moment would be unfair. Especially with the polar opposite personalities, the fact they don't get on well - she'll have no where to escape.
Your sister and her husband can go in the living room and their DD in the bedroom. If they don't like that, tough. You're giving them a roof over their heads, they should be bloody grateful.
There isn't enough bedrooms. Just because your son is happy to share, doesn't mean your daughter should be pressured too - completely different situation.

Same for the meals. Does your sister work? Her husband? They've hardly any outgoings, surely they could take their kids out if they wanted to? Stopping your weekly tradition is also unfair on your children. From what you've said, you've been through a lot - you shouldn't have to give up any more than what you're already giving.

Your sister doesn't get to demand what happens under your roof.

After reading your posts @tamarvin and many many quite frankly bizarre posts I have a few questions and some suggestions.

Do you have two reception rooms? I only ask as if not then, do you all go to your rooms when your niece needs to go to sleep? This then beggars the question on how is that sustainable, that you and your DC are living in a house share for A YEAR?

Was none of this discussed prior to them moving in?

Here are a few suggestions:

Your sister should have insisted that she and her DH stay downstairs and not their DC. I would now insist they now swap with their daughter (to all those posters who were aghast at this suggestion, there are plenty of parents that do this already), as your daughter will not share.

I would continue to take your DC out for dinner, just because they now live there is does not mean that you should do everything together.

l would suggest that they need to spend some time visiting other relatives at weekends etc so that you and your DC have some space and family time. Christmas would be a good time for them to go and stay somewhere else.

In conclusion, I think they are massively taking the piss. Your sister especially, thinks that she can come into your home and dictate things to make it easier for her and her family. You now need to be more assertive and set more boundaries.

If anything, their daughter not having her own space should be the kick up the backside they need to get their own home.

I had to sleep out a lot as a child/teen.
My mum was an alcoholic and when she went on a binge me and my dad stayed with my GPs in their 2 bed.
Dad had the bed (he worked driving all day) and I had to sleep in the living room. They then converted (in the loosest terms) a cupboard in the bedroom into a bed - just big enough for a mattress with the door shut.

I did that for weeks at a time, at least three times a year, while still going to school.

You sleep where you're put when someone is putting you up.

You're arrangement with curtain sounds like a great solution to giving your niece privacy.

If her mum is that concerned about it, she and her husband can take the couch and her daughter can have the guest room.

They've lost their mother. That's enough on the life lesson front.

You girl should not have to share, sorry. Your weekly dinner is your family tradition not theirs. I am sure they have theirs. Do it when they are not there. Or explain the situation for the kids. This what you do as a dad for your kids, they can get a ice cream cone or just fries together. You don't have to do everything exactly the same. It's like your date night with your kids. Your nephew are your sweet nephews they are not your kids. You cannot dissolve your family into theirs. maybe once per quarter they can come along. And even that I would not advise, you are loosing on bonding time.
It is true that a teenage girl should have a private space to sleep in. They should switch with her actually. As their two kids could actually get along in the guest room. They could sleep in a foldable and comfortable sofa bed. They would regain their couple privacy and the anxiety of the little one is solved with being with his big sister. Also the open space remains an adult living space. I would think that that would be the more viable solution in the long run. They have walls over their heads, but they should be mindful of not disturbing the development of kids who already went through trauma. The onus is on them to find a viable solution.

How lovely of you to be so accommodating!

Keep your precious family time. It's a great opportunity for your sister to also plan a special evening for her family.

I feel bad for your niece, and something should be done, but not by you or yours. You've given more than enough of yourselves.

As has often been said, no good deed goes unpunished. Unfortunately your generosity has encouraged entitlement and I'm sure your sister will come to resent you for the situation you've allowed yourself to become a key player in. Your kindness in allowing them to stay is old news now and further expectations are piling up. She'll want your room before the year is up.

Thank you for sticking up for your children.

We had a similar situation when I was 11, I had to share not just my room but my bed (it was a double) with a cousin.

My brother and my male cousin had bunks.

It is really horrible having that forced on you.

Also it will help the parents move up the housing list if they don't all have a room.

I would have thought they would welcome the house to themselves when you go out for dinner.

Stick to your guns.

I think you are being incredibly generous to your sister and her family. It is essential that you put your children first, as you are doing. Do not be guilt shamed into forcing your daughter to share her room. If your sister does not appreciate what you are doing, she can find alternative accommodation. Your children deserve their weekly treat, time for you alone together, keep going out. Actually I think your children deserve even more special treatment, their lives have been upended. Please continue to prioritise yourself and your children. If your sister is unappreciative, shame on her.

Nah - adults in the living room, privacy curtain for them. Two kids in the room the adults were in, privacy curtain for them.

The more uncomfortable you make it for the ADULTS, the faster they're likely to move on - their daughters discomfort however will constantly be put on you and your daughter.

And be clear, its your way or its no way, they can do this or they can pitch up on the council office doorstep and tell them they're all homeless.

A 14 yr old with no privacy is wrong. Her parents should be sleeping in the living room with the little boy and the 14 yr old should have the spare room.

The parents can sleep in the lounge.

You can go out to dinner whenever you want.

If they are not happy with the current arrangements they can leave.

Do not budge!

I can’t believe some of these replies. The poor girl has lost her mother, lost her peaceful home after it’s been taken over by 5 extra people, and now you all want her to lose her room too?

I’m also guessing a lot of the responses from people saying she’s being mean aren’t introverts. Introverts NEED their own space to be able to retreat to. She is already stressed and overwhelmed by all the extra people in her house. For a YEAR.

The op’s sister needs to give their daughter their room if they want her to have her own space, not take the last bit of solitude the op’s daughter has left, in her own home.

In all honesty though, I think you need to tell your sister no one is coping with the arrangement and they need to find something else. Your house isn’t big enough for two families. Your daughter and niece are both struggling.

People always come on these threads and say 'tell them to leave' like it's that simple.

Anyone who has actually had a family member in need knows it's actually pretty complicated and most of us feel duty bound to help. It's not so easy to make your sister and her children homeless while you have a spare bedroom. The problems they are clashing over are small compared to being homeless with children.

That said- She shouldn't tell you not to go to dinner, that's ridiculous.

She should also accept that your daughter doesn't want to share her room and niece has no entitlement to make her.

Is your sister helping you at all OP? I ask because for living together for four months, you've apparently only clashed over two things- I would expect it to be more! Is she helping with childcare, chores, being supportive towards your children? Is she babysitting so you can go out? Meal planning? In some ways is it easier to not be a lone parent? What about your brother in law, is he contributing? Do you get along with him?

It's easy to look at these things in isolation and say 'chuck her out' but it's usually more nuanced than that.

Absolutely have a conversation and tell her that she'd had your final answer on those subjects- you won't be discussing it anymore. If the living situation is inadequate then she needs to be pleading her case to the council, not you.

But don't chuck her out if things are otherwise manageable. You are doing an incredible thing for your niece and nephews, which will impact the trajectory of their lives. It's huge. Keep your eye on that.

Firstly, no I don’t think your dd should give up her safe space and share her room. If you have an introverted teen, you possibly don’t appreciate how much time teens spend connected with friends. I have a very sociable 14 year old. She is constantly face timing her friends, has lots of sleepovers and needs a lot of privacy to do this. For your introverted dd, being in a room with someone constantly laughing and chatting would be hell so you are perfectly correct to hold that line.

On the other hand, your dn isn’t getting any time to do what more extroverted and exuberant teens do. Sleeping in the living room must be hell for her too. Not to mention the embarrassment if she bleeds on the sheets or needs privacy if she has period pain etc. From a practical perspective, does their dd have anywhere to go that she’d feel comfortable and be able to study? Eg grandparents house - that’s as long as there is a loving grandparent to guide her and lots of contact with her parents. Teens change in maturity so much every year and at 14, I think my dd would be ready to be elsewhere some of the time but wouldn’t have been at 13. Is she year 9 or 10 btw? And what year is your dd in?

I also think your dn sleeping upstairs is a better solution. It looks as if their youngest wants to sleep with his parents, which is understandable as he’s had a lot of upheaval. So if you are in this for the long haul, I would get the parents to sleep downstairs. That will mean their 5 yo too and I think for that to work and I understand there would be reluctance, they’d need quite a robust solution to dividing the room up - if you were willing for them to sort that.

As long as their health is ok, a couple of mattresses on the floor would take up the least room and from a quick google, the better room dividers are made for the office. Eg www.officereality.co.uk/prod/11195/division-economy-screens/-84. Not cheap and don’t go to the ceiling - cardboard could be used at the top perhaps. I’m actually trying to think how you could make celotex stand up without erecting a wall as this is dirt cheap and not heavy. Can they pay for this?

I think a lot of how I would react to my sister would be on how much she has was there for my family had I lost my spouse. I think talking to her on neutral ground would help so go out for a walk or grab a coffee and tell her how it is from your perspective. There are two of them and one of you so it is easy for you to feel ganged up on in your own home. She also needs to be told that the meal out is about your children having family time without you and you are giving her family the space to do the same. If she still objects, suggest she saves up and does the same from time to time.

The bottom line is that if it is all too much, they can be forced into temporary accommodation. The only thing in this case I would consider doing, if the temp accommodation is too far to travel to school, is to perhaps offer for your dn to stay with you during the week until the end of GCSES.