Not forcing my daughter to share her bedroom or stop going out to eat?

[tamarvin]

Right now my sister, her husband, and their three kids (14f, 10m, 5m) are staying with me and my family temporarily while they are waiting on council housing. I have two kids (13f and 11m).

So I have four bedrooms in my house. The first is my own. The second one is my daughters bedroom. The third is my son's bedroom. The last bedroom is the guest room where my sister and her husband are sleeping.

From the first night they were here my son has wanted his 10 year old cousin to sleep in his room. Those two get along very well and enjoy each others company. So we set up my 14 year old niece and my 5 year old nephew in the lounge downstairs. My 5 year old nephew is apparently having a lot of anxiety problem so most of the time he sleeps in the guestroom with his parents.

My niece is unhappy with this arrangement because she feel likes she gets no privacy (downstairs is open plan). To solve this my sister wants me to force my daughter to share her bedroom with my niece. My daughter however is not as close with my niece as the boys are with each other. My daughter and niece have very different personalities. My niece can be loud and intimidating and my daughter on the other hand is very soft spoken. Having so many other people in the house has already been making her feel stressed and overwhelmed. All three boys being younger and energetic can make things feel chaotic. I don't want to force her to give up her only private area to retreat to for peace and quiet.

I told my sister that we can try to add a privacy curtain to a corner of the lounge for her daughter. My sister said that wouldn't help at all because anyone could just barge in. She says that a teenage girl should be able to have access to a lockable room especially in a house full of mostly boys. She doesn't see any issue with the girls sharing even though I told her my concerns. She thinks it would be a good opportunity for them to bond.

Another issue we've run into involved a weekly dinner I do with my kids. So far we've had no issues with regular dinner as we all contribute to the groceries and all the adults take turn cooking. I however would get my takeaway for my kids once a week. I let my them take turns each week to choose what they want. It's a treat at the end of the week that they both look forward too. My sister and her husband have a tight budget so they cannot afford to buy takeaway regularly. While I am a better off financially paying for everyone every week is not feasible as it is already expensive and it would cost double.

I thought that eating takeaway in front of them at home would be cruel though. I've had a little discussion about it with my kids and told them that while my sister and her family are staying with us we would be having our weekly dinner out instead of doing takeaway and eating at home. I thought this was a fair compromise.

My sister did not agree. She says it's obvious that we are going out to eat good food since we leave before dinner and when we come back home we don't eat anything. While my kids won't brag about going out to eat they will answer honestly when my niece or nephews ask where we went. They then end up feeling bad and my sister says they wouldn't feel bad if I just said no to my kids and that it wouldn't hurt my kids to not go out as often. I will also add that on a selfish note I don't want to stop taking them out to eat because its the only time I get to have with just the three of us alone now.

Yes but sharing a private room isn’t the same as bunking down in a common area now is it? Because if it were, well then the 14 yo niece who has the lounge all to herself then has more privacy than the two boys do.

I don't think you've mentioned if they are contributing to costs other than food? A year is a bloody long time to put up a whole other family!

On the op I agree with those saying that your sister and her husband should be the ones sleeping in the living room, their daughter in their current room, the boys seem to be ok all in one room? And your daughter you and your wife in your own rooms.

Your sister sounds rather entitled given the huge favour you are doing her entire family.

I also agree with pp who said if you think it will be only a year until they can acquire council housing that's extremely unlikely!

I was disabled with a disabled child and it took me 8 years to get one.

The current economy is even worse and housing crisis ditto.

Why can't they look for a private rental? They could manage with a 2 bed initially at least with parents again in the living room. Are they the types that think the world owes them?

Sorry I misread somewhere thinking your wife was still with you, that's a lot to deal with.

Your sister & partner need to sleep downstairs & DD can sleep with her younger brother.

You aren't doing anything wrong taking your family out for dinner.

A year is a long time. I don't think I could do that.

Plus the boys are youngest and will have the earliest bedtime, so it’s not practical to have them sleep in the living room.

And they’ll still need access to the bedroom because presumably that’s where all OPs son’s toys/books/clothes are stored, so even if someone else used that room for sleeping, it wouldn’t be a ‘private’ space for that person.

Are you for real?

OP is letting them stay in his house, he mentions his late wife so it would appear that he and his children have been through enough, and he needs to prioritise his own family unit over his ungrateful CF sister, whose daughter could have privacy if her parents slept elsewhere.

But give him even more hassle of changing bedsheets every night and sleeping in the lounge in his own house!

@tamarvin OP you've shown your children through your generosity how to treat people well, but maybe now it's time to show them how you create boundaries when people treat you like a mug. That's a really good life lesson too.

Of course not. I assumed the OP was a woman, see my further note when I realized it.

100% agreed @OriginalUsername3

Just because someone is family doesn't mean you don't love them if you don't sacrifice anything for them.

4 months is plenty of time to save up a rental deposit if you are living in someone else's home, even if you're paying bills etc.

I would see the needs of all of the children involved as equal and try to find a way to make it work for everyone.

Yes, the needs of the children are equal i.e. OP prioritises his kids' needs while DSis prioritises her kids' needs (to the best of her ability). Having the needs of all the children to be equal would actually be OP prioritising DSis's kids as any changes to the current living situation benefits the GUESTS at the expense of DD. HTH.

YABU at all about your dinner dates with your children. You need time on your own together. Stay firm on that

I think the sleeping situation is very tricky - of course I think your daughter should be able to have her own space but I feel very very sorry for your niece. It must be horrendous for her and she will need some privacy and respite as much as your daughter.

I have no ideas about the size of rooms but tbh I think the parents should take a turn to sleep in the sitting room and let their daughter have a room.

I think I would tell the sister it is not working out. You said a year but then she has been overly demanding and unpleasant. If she is concerned for her daughter, she and her husband should kip in the living room and let her have the bedroom.

I think you should prioritize yourself and your own family.

I feel sorry for your niece, especially that your sister and her husband cannot prioritize her needs.

@tamarvin

If your children (& yourself) have lost their mother, it is more important than every that they have some routine & familiarity in thier lives.

I take it this is the house they lived in with their mother, yours is the bedroom you shared with your wife & so on.

It is NOT your fault if you have a greater income than your sisters family does & her children are NOT your responsibility.

You & your children should not have to live a 'lesser' life than you were, just because your sibling is not in the same financial position as you.

You need to keep having your takeaway/eating out treat with just your own children.
It is a thing that belongs to you as a complete family unit (& sharing it with your siblings family changes it) & without their mother, you & your children need it now more than ever.
You need to let your daughter feel safe enough that she knows she doesn't have to lose her privacy as well as her mother.

How much do you think it would hurt her to see another girl who still has a mother get to take over her stuff because that girls mother fought for her, while your daughter wonders if her mother would have had her back?

Same with your son, he needs to know it's HIS room & he can have it to himself if he needs that (although if he's okay sharing that's fine too, as long as it's his decision).

I do think if you make known plans to go away at Christmas, you might come back to find your daughters room suddenly has an extra bed in it, so I'd put a lock on her door.

Please don't take anything away from your children because of other people. They need you & the parts of your past (like Christmas traditions, the way you celebrate their birthdays etc..) that are links to their mother to take priority over your siblings family.

You need to matter in your own home too.

It must be hard for you & your children, to see another family with a mother right there 24/7 in the places that used to be your wifes.

Personally, I would be telling your sister that if she doesn't feel it's working out, she needs to be looking for alternative accommodation.
The council absolutely will not regard her family as in any need of accommodation if her kids have beds in bedrooms, the parents have a bedroom etc..
They will never be rehoused in those circumstances.

Next summer, if you normally go on holiday, will you be expected to change what you do because it's not what your sister can do?

Please, think long & hard about whether this situation is right for you & your children.

I say this as the 'poorer' relative, who has previously been widowed (many many years ago as a young woman).

My sister can & does do things I cannot imagine being able to do.
She has done things for her kids I will not be able to do for my own kids.
I'm not broke (we do just fine) but she is really wealthy.

I am happy for her success, happy for the life she has given her children.
She is happy for me & for my kids too.

But we don't have the same income, so we don't live the same life & I don't have the same choices as she does.
She wouldn't leave us starving if the worst happened, but she wouldn't give up her sons room to someone else even though he's at Uni now, because it's his room.

That is as it should be.
We are no longer children who should expect their parents to treat them equally so they get the same.

We are adults who should expect to live the lives we have made for ourselves.

Your sister cannot provide for her children right now.
It is not your job to take things from your children so hers can have more.

Your sister is trying to exert her power as the matriarch and ‘woman’ of the house. She’s taking advantage of the fact there’s no Mum to deal with. I would talk to her calmly and explain, your DD is struggling and your adamant that your daughter will not share her room and your Friday night dinners will continue. It will give her family some time alone as a five in the (your!) house. It sounds a good idea to take your children away for Christmas and subtly remind your sister in the New Year that the arrangement is until the end of May, make a joke about you all being fed up with each other by then.

I'm sorry, but agreeing to have them stay with you for a year was a hugely bad decision.

You had lost your wife and your children had lost their mother. You should have taken time to deal with this as a family, with you and your children coming to terms with being a family of three.

I'm sorry (and I get it because I made some terrible decisions in three weeks and months after I lost my husband) but inflicting another whole family on your children, in their home, in their rooms, 24/7 was a huge error.

This clearly isn't working out. Your sister needs to understand that this can't go on.

It seems that your own children only get to be a family with you for one evening a week, and in a restaurant at that. They never get you and their home to themselves. It's tragic.

I think your sister is taking the piss.

If you had written about you wife in your OP then I don’t think ANYONE would be saying your DD should share her room. Im very sorry for your loss.

I don’t think your daughter should share her room.

They can sod off regarding you eating out.

They ought to be happy that they are safe, well and that you are housing them.

Cheeky Fuckers.

Does your sister or her husband work? Is there any reason they can’t privately rent? Surely if they are living with you they will never get a council house as they have somewhere to live.
They would need to be made homeless to get priority although I imagine they might be housed somewhere like a b&b temporaily.

Sounds like your kids have already been through a lot, and putting up with all these extra people living with them for a whole year is a lot to cope with on top.

Ideally from a household perspective it would work best if dd let niece share with her, but I think that's entirely up to your dd to decide if she's willing to do so, and for her to make that choice in an entirely un pressured way. Which it sounds like she already has, otherwise she'd have offered before now? So the next best thing is for your sister and husband to sleep in the living room and let niece have the guest room. However, I'm not sure where that leaves your youngest nephew.

As for the weekly takeaway, I'm struggling to see how they can be that broke that they can't afford to join in with that??

Even if they're both unemployed and their 3rd child too young to qualify for universal credit, they should still be receiving nearly £1100 a month in UC and child benefit. If their youngest child qualifies for UC then they'll be receiving over £1300 a month. And all that's still on the basis that they're living rent free with you - if they were renting they'd get housing benefit on top of that amount. So where is their money going for them to not even afford a take away once a week?

Your sister and her husband take the living room and niece has the guest bedroom.
a year you are a saint.
tell her if your children have lost their mother then for this to work you will have a meal out with your children once a week. If they disagree they fucking leave.

Surely if the rooms are an issue, they can give the niece the spare room and parents and 5 year old can sleep together in the lounge. A 5 year old is likely to be awake earliest anyway.

As for takeaway and meals out, enjoy your weekly treat. You must be saving them loads of money in rent each month. Surely, in their situation they should both be working if they want to better their current tricky situation. 2 working parents with no housing expenses, surely they could afford a takeaway if they wanted one.

Why don't you and your DH sleep in the sitting room?

Your daughter is mean. She should put herself in her cousins shoes and have some empathy. And you should be leading by example. I’d be ashamed to treat my sister and her children in such a way in their straightened circumstances.

@saraclaraJust to be clear my wife died over 6 years ago. I think many people here are mistakenly assuming she passed away recently.

A year seems very specific. What's their plan if they don't get council housing in a year? Why isn't her husband out looking for private rental?

I understand all the comments about putting your children first, if these people weren't family. I just think its a bit of a cold attitude to have towards family. I can't imagine thinking of/talking about my family like this. I would see the needs of all of the children involved as equal and try to find a way to make it work for everyone. And I don't see how the weekly meals out are necessary. Surely this could be changed to monthly, and therefore include everyone? As for quality time alone - find some other way to spend time together alone, something that doesn't rub it in the faces of niece and nephew that they are the poor cousins who get left behind when the rich cousins go out for dinner.. Its like a Jane Austen novel!

Yes of course, all those Jane Austin novels where generous widowers and their bereaved children, the nervous daughters missing their privacy, and the generous little boys excited to be with their cousin, are portrayed by our Jane as the nasty villains of the piece. Villains for wanting to continue with a family tradition of bonding over a shared meal; villains for wanting to hold onto their bedroom and not wanting to share with a loud and dominating older girl; villains for resisting a larger more dominant family trying to take over their house; villains for offering a reasonable accommodation of their guest's needs and sensibilities, when they are really not obliged to do anything at all for them, since these guests are 2 adults - one a male - able to work and save and look after themselves and their children, not 18th century females living in genteel poverty with no prospect of an income and destined for the poor house. Sure, Jane Austin would have been on the side of the sister in all this