Not forcing my daughter to share her bedroom or stop going out to eat?

[tamarvin]

Right now my sister, her husband, and their three kids (14f, 10m, 5m) are staying with me and my family temporarily while they are waiting on council housing. I have two kids (13f and 11m).

So I have four bedrooms in my house. The first is my own. The second one is my daughters bedroom. The third is my son's bedroom. The last bedroom is the guest room where my sister and her husband are sleeping.

From the first night they were here my son has wanted his 10 year old cousin to sleep in his room. Those two get along very well and enjoy each others company. So we set up my 14 year old niece and my 5 year old nephew in the lounge downstairs. My 5 year old nephew is apparently having a lot of anxiety problem so most of the time he sleeps in the guestroom with his parents.

My niece is unhappy with this arrangement because she feel likes she gets no privacy (downstairs is open plan). To solve this my sister wants me to force my daughter to share her bedroom with my niece. My daughter however is not as close with my niece as the boys are with each other. My daughter and niece have very different personalities. My niece can be loud and intimidating and my daughter on the other hand is very soft spoken. Having so many other people in the house has already been making her feel stressed and overwhelmed. All three boys being younger and energetic can make things feel chaotic. I don't want to force her to give up her only private area to retreat to for peace and quiet.

I told my sister that we can try to add a privacy curtain to a corner of the lounge for her daughter. My sister said that wouldn't help at all because anyone could just barge in. She says that a teenage girl should be able to have access to a lockable room especially in a house full of mostly boys. She doesn't see any issue with the girls sharing even though I told her my concerns. She thinks it would be a good opportunity for them to bond.

Another issue we've run into involved a weekly dinner I do with my kids. So far we've had no issues with regular dinner as we all contribute to the groceries and all the adults take turn cooking. I however would get my takeaway for my kids once a week. I let my them take turns each week to choose what they want. It's a treat at the end of the week that they both look forward too. My sister and her husband have a tight budget so they cannot afford to buy takeaway regularly. While I am a better off financially paying for everyone every week is not feasible as it is already expensive and it would cost double.

I thought that eating takeaway in front of them at home would be cruel though. I've had a little discussion about it with my kids and told them that while my sister and her family are staying with us we would be having our weekly dinner out instead of doing takeaway and eating at home. I thought this was a fair compromise.

My sister did not agree. She says it's obvious that we are going out to eat good food since we leave before dinner and when we come back home we don't eat anything. While my kids won't brag about going out to eat they will answer honestly when my niece or nephews ask where we went. They then end up feeling bad and my sister says they wouldn't feel bad if I just said no to my kids and that it wouldn't hurt my kids to not go out as often. I will also add that on a selfish note I don't want to stop taking them out to eat because its the only time I get to have with just the three of us alone now.

The waiting list for council property in my borough is 7 years so good luck with that. Realistically they need to be looking for private rental.

While they’re with you I see no reason why your DD can’t share with another girl, I don’t think it’s fair a 14 year old girl should have to sleep somewhere so communal.

I would not be making my dd share. Nieces parents can sleep downstairs.

I would not be stopping my weekly time with my dc’s. Nor would I be subsiding your sisters family by treating them to a takeaway every fortnight.

Their costs are minimal at the moment and should be able to afford quality time with their own children. isn’t at least one of them working full time? If not they need to pull their fingers out and start job hunting.

If they don’t like this they will have to go and get temp accommodation from the council. Their dd will be given some privacy. Some councils will also help with a deposit under the rent deposit scheme. If not would it be possible for you to loan them this, doing it in writing etc.

And good call on going away for Christmas. It will be a nightmare listening to your sister bitch that your children got better presents than hers.

What happened that they live with you and what else are they doing about housing themselves other than "waiting 0 on the council housing them?

Because he's a man, his DWife died!

I think you have been more than kind enough OP.

Absolutely your DCs should have some time alone with you, and your DD should not be forced to share a room with her cousin if she doesn't want to.

I would suggest to your Dsis that her and her DH can share the living room if it's not appropriate for DNeice. If she was to move in with your DD, from their point of view there is no reason to ever move out from their free accommodation.

I suspect that your Dsis doesn't intend her family to move in any case - what's going to change at the end of the 12 months that means they can move ?

It's true that no good deed goes unpunished.

If OP's children have lost their mother, they've been through enough. Of course OP wants some private time with them, one meal out per week is far from unreasonable. Thus is very traumatic for his daughter. His sister and family should leave.

Why are they homeless? Are the adults working? Why can't they afford the odd treat for their children if they are living rent free? Why can't the niece have the 4th bedroom (possibly with her mother and brother) and the father sleep downstairs. Why should your children - who by the sounds of it, have lost their own mother and the privacy of their family home - lose the few comforts and treats that they have with their dad because of others' jealousy?

Clearly going against the grain here but I agree with the above.

You agreed to let them stay. That means doing whatever is needed to make them feel comfortable and at home. If you didn't want to do that, the answer should have been no.

If your DD needs her own room for privacy, doesn't your niece, who is similar age, also need her own space for the same reason? I think you should try to make this work by looking at all the different options (as outlined above by Needmorelego) so that both girls get their own space.

As for insisting on still having your weekly take away/meal out, I do think that's a bit mean. And I don't think going for a meal out rather than takeaway is any better because they know you're all leaving for a fancy meal out without them. Doesn't sound very nice for the kids who get left out. This person is your sister, her kids are your niece and nephew? Do you not see them as people you care about? Are you actually resentful of having to share your home? Do you judge them for having less income than you and secretly think its their own fault? Must be something more going on here because I can't imagine being that insensitive towards family. Even if you do think its the fault of your DS and her DH that they have more money, surely that's not their kids' fault?

Why can't you forgo the takeaways for a while and do a joint end of the week treat that they can join in with?

Also, you said that your sister has told you "its obvious that we are going out to eat" and then you say that your kids will answer honestly when asked about it....so did you try to hide it from them? If so that's quite strange and makes it worse, like you're sneaking off. It doesn't sound like you're making them feel very welcome, at a time that must be hard for them. Think about how tough this must be for your DS's kids...being made homeless and having to share a house with an aunt and cousins who clearly don't really want you there and sneak off for nice meals out that your parents can't afford. Added to that the girl has to sleep downstairs in a communal area when there's males in the house. Not nice.

Could the two boys that are happy sharing have the downstairs open plan sleeping arrangements (permanent sleepover!) and your niece have the bedroom?

in terms of the weekly meal out I'd just make it very clear that it's not about money it's about having time to bond as a family unit alone once a week.

A YEAR!!!!

They are literally giving up their space, their routines, and their family life to house another family. What else do you want them to do? Be steamrollered into doing things they don’t want to do just to keep another family happy for an entire year? I think they’re already being extremely generous.

Bloody hell, how can people possibly have a problem with a widower wanting to have one evening alone a week spending quality time with his bereaved children?

Yea agree with @Musicalmaestro

if the issue is so big then dad can sleep in living room. No need to inconvenience your daughter. She’s already been generous in sharing her home.

You sound absolutely lovely and so do your kids.

Keep on having your weekly meal out. Her kids could also get used to hearing “no”’ !

So happy to hear about such a fantastic caring dad and brother by the way :)

See no reason? Considering they’ve been repeatedly given, the fact that you can’t see them suggests you haven’t actually looked.

it’s perfectly fair that her parents need to sort it for her without placing further burden on OP and/or his daughter.

Putting myself in place of your sister, with a daughter who was finding it difficult to sleep in an open plan area-
I would sleep in the open plan area myself and give up room for my daughter.

As solution to take away - I would contribute to this rather than see my brother’s family do without, if I felt bad for my kids. Does not need to be every week if could not afford.

Your sister is being incredibly ungrateful.

As a father/ parent - I would not be forcing my daughter to share her space.

I think it entirely reasonable for your sister to sleep in open plan area as a compromise - she seems keen on your family making compromises.

She can sleep in their room then.
She's moved her family of 5 into your house. There's more of them than you. She needs to wind her neck in a bit and appreciate a hugely generous thing before she loses it.

Don't stop taking your kids out. Visiting your wife's family at Christmas is a good idea but I would be wary of leaving bedrooms unattended as I wouldn't want them moving their daughter in while you're away. Then they'll want your room because there's only one of you and you don't need as much space.

The bloody cheek of some people

He’s their uncle not aunt.
His children have already been through a worse traumatic event after loosing their mum don’t you think?

They don’t have to share their home with the op. They could have been housed temporarily by the LA. They could have approached the LA about the rent deposit scheme.

You are absolutely not being unreasonable. Having you sister and her family to stay for a year is an incredibly kind thing to do.

of course you should continue to take your kids out. And that gives your sisters family some time alone, that must be much needed.

And it’s totally fine to insist that your daughter has her own space. Though I think that the niece shouldn’t be sleeping in the common area, and should swap with her parents.

this is a difficult living situation for you all. And difficult times cause people to act unreasonably. I’m sure your sister will look back and realise this in the future. Meanwhile I would carry on doing what you are doing, grit your teeth and try not to fall out irreversibly.

Gosh. Just RTFT.

First of all, I’m really sad to read about your late wife. This must make the whole situation even harder.

Presumably your sister and her family would be in a B&B now if you hadn’t taken them in? Sharing one or two bedrooms and possibly a communal bathroom?

So you and your children are doing them a huge kindness.

You should be proud of your decision to support your daughter and not make her share. The reasons have been well-rehearsed in previous posts. Eating out weekly is also something you shouldn’t feel bad about. It’s really important quality time for the three of you.

I totally agree with others saying you need to be 100% sure how this set-up affects their chances of council housing. Well worth checking for yourself and then at least you have options. I don’t think it would be fair on anyone to carry on like this for another eight months.

Definitely suggest that your sister and her DH swap so niece and 5yo share guest room. Stand by for your sister to suggest you sleep in the living room and give your room to your niece!

Finally, I totally understand your concerns about Christmas. And a break might be great for everyone. But also agree with others saying if you go away then your niece will move into your DD’s bedroom, possibly leading to more drama when you get home. She may even divide it up with the help of her mum as a fait accompli: ‘Look! We made it work!” So you’re right to give it careful thought.

You sound like a kind person - I really hope this all has a happy ending.

Just read your updates (sorry didn't RTFT before posting) and you've said this arrangement is for a year. Surely you don't expect your teenage niece to sleep in a communal area for a whole year?? As I said before, she needs her privacy for all the same reasons your daughter does.

Your comments about escaping from them for Christmas and starting eviction proceedings if they don't move out confirm my suspicion that you don't really see your DS as family who you care about. You're resentful of doing this and think she's brought all her problems on herself. In that case I don't think you should have agreed to let her move in. Its unfair to do a 'kind' thing for someone but then to hold a grudge over it and put restrictions on it.

I don’t think your sister is necessarily a cheeky fucker (although she might be)…I think it’s a very difficult living situation to be in for both families.
You said yourself that didn’t really think about it. She probably didn’t consider how is was going to go either. They are the ‘poor relations’ and now they’re feeling it. Personally I’d hate to be the teenager in the living room. Your sister is likely feeling guilty about the discrepancy between your niece’s and your daughter’s circumstances, which through no fault of yours, is being rubbed in their face daily.

I don’t see that this can continue harmoniously. It’s a pressure cooker. There will be a colossal fallout as someone somewhere pops their lid and it all goes very sour. Sorry to be so negative but I am being realistic.
Seek another solution before that happens. That’s my advice.

Yabvu. You agreed to let them stay so you need to be accommodating. I can’t believe you’d go out just the three of you and leave your sister and family out! It’s so rude. I’d never do this. Either none of us would have takeaway or we all would even if that meant maybe once a month instead.

Also completely unacceptable about not making your daughter share her room. As others have said you and your daughter could always share?

it’s not ideal and a lot of sacrifice so if you weren’t prepared for that you shouldn’t have said they could stay. But you did…so I think yabu to treat them this way it’s quite mean.

Id be giving them notice personally.

For children who have lost their mother this family time of a meal out now (previously a takeaway) is probably worth much more than just the meal itself. Time for them to be together away from hassle of life and talk. Do not give this up. It’s the nieces parents who should sacrifice their room to give their own DD some space. OP and his children are doing enough

I know right! The sister shouldn't be putting her guilt of not paying for her kids to have a take away onto her brother. I don't understand why she can't get her kids something nice on a Friday night, even if it's pizza from ASDA.

I agree!

If OP's sister cared that much about her DD, she'd have the sitting room with her husband and let her daughter have the guest room.