Halloween Judgement- keep your views to yourself

[HappyHalloweenWeenies]

I'm not religious and love Halloween. I have always celebrated it and my dp celebrates with me. Nothing too scary or out there because our kids are young. No chainsaw Massacre figures in garden or dripping blood, just the usual pumpkins, ghosts and witches, food and pre agreed trick or treating with neighbours. Our kids love it too for dressing up and have been taught in a fun way and not a 'celebrating evil' way.

Anyway, sil and mil invited themselves down this week. I didn't invite them and made it very clear to dp that as it was half term I would be doing the usual Halloween stuff so kids don't miss out. Dp fine with this and we arranged a few activities like pumpkin picking, carving etc. Sil and mil here the whole week. Both kids going to the village party but no expectation for either mil or sil and kids to attend, just one evening.

Anyway, sil been fine. A few questions about it, nothing phased rudely. Politely declined Halloween party, which we offered with the caveat if it's not her thing that is fine no judgement. Sil is a fairweather Christian, eg church for marriage and getting into schools so we weren't sure if we should ask or not but thought it would be rude not to.

Mil has been making a few snide comments. Kids watching ridiculously sanitised Halloween songs on TV (think cocomelon) and scoffs things like 'how can they have a 'happy halloween' with all those ghoulish characters? Trying to dissuade kids from their own pumpkin designs and do ones she approves of etc. It's all been very low key so I haven't mentioned it to dp but aibu to think that as she knows we have conflicting views and she invited herself down knowing full well we celebrate it she needs to keep her views to herself? It's starting to grate on me as I don't want my kids to start seeing evil in perfectly innocent dressing up etc.

I feel it's a bit like if we invited ourselves down at Christmas and then made snide comments about going to church.

Aibu or is sil approach better and mil is engaging in weird power games?

I take it you haven't read the OP's update about burning witches? @Goldbar

Slightly barking.

@ArcticSkewer
I really don't understand how celebrating Halloween in the "modern style" can in any way be seen to foster Devil worship, any more than celebrating Christmas in the moderns style leads to Christianity.

I was introduced to this "slippery slope" theology as a teenager and it has no intellectual rigour. Halloween doesn't normalise Devil worship any more than watching Star Trek makes me inclined to believe on alien abductions. (I was also warned against all sci fi and fantasy, btw as being another insidious path to occult worship.)

So yes I see a church doing an "alternative Halloween" as totally pointless.

Our church has a service for All saints with candles lit throughout the graveyard. It isn't aimed at kids, and it is beautiful and moving (according to my mum). And not yet a destination event for the fairweather Christians we talked abut upthread.

Like it or not, religious events often change or lose their original meaning - this is absolutely normal in all societies throughout history as they evolve.

‘Fair weather Christian’ you sound pretty judgemental yourself.

It is slightly odd to fixate on the witch-burning (😄), but most organised religions have their unsalubrious aspects, many of which are still with us today. So I'd be fairly impatient if my MIL spouted nonsense to my child about how Halloween is not 'nice' given all the horror and destruction caused by Christianity and other religions in the past (and still ongoing). I believe absolutely that people have the right to believe and worship as they please but tolerance is a two-way thing and making snide comments in front of children is just bloody irritating!

@feindVicarInATutu at first you annoyed me. But increasingly I'm finding I like your posts a lot.

@mathanxiety I am over-invested in this thread but... "Why do you think 'Christians' would be opposed to Hallowe'en?" This is TOTALLY a thing. I got lectured on it at my senior school. Literally given a printed list of things that might appear innocent but make you susceptible to pathways that would lead to the occult. Thought it was just bonkers R.E. teacher. But then my perfectly lovely CofE Vicar went down the same path. Found it so, so hard to understand how he could genuinely believe that me reading a book about dragons by Anne McAffery could be incompatible with my faith. He studied theology at Oxford, and was evangelical but I wouldn't have said radical evangelical.

It is definitely a thing, some Christians genuinely think Halloween is dangerous.

feindVicarInATutu at first you annoyed me. But increasingly I'm finding I like your posts a lot.

Yup . That's me ! 😂

@unibrand I suspect the OP picked witch burning as it is relevant to the subject of Halloween which many people traditionally associate with witches.

Why does MIL get a free pass to be sniffy about ghouls? I bet there would be a scene if every time there was a Christian-related celebration, DiL muttered about the centuries of violence and persecution perpetrated against groups the Christian churches have "othered". Unnecessary and rude.

I didn’t mean all Christians. But some definitely do get ‘offended’ in the name of religion when it comes to things like this. I personally think it’s down to lack of understanding/ignorance.

It was absolutely barking, and mentioned the loss of midwifery knowledge. Leg-pulling on the part of the OP I think. Let me dig out the quote.

Yes. I should have clarified that it is usually the ‘born again’ types. They were the ones who would habitually complain about the teaching of Macbeth.

"OP: Well, thing is, a keep my opinion about the nastier aspects of her religion to myself so think it's only fair she could do the same for our traditions.

"OP: Well, on the Halloween topic thousands of innocent women were burned as witches in the name of Christianity, losing us collective knowledge about midwifery etc for centuries."

Come on, OP. Burning people as witches (thus losing valuable midwifery knowledge) is one of the nastier aspects of your mother-in-law's religion that you manage to keep your mouth shut about?

You are leg-pulling now I'm certain! Très amusant

I remember last year on strictly Dan Walker wouldn’t dress up for Halloween.
its like most things I think all harmless until someone takes it too far and starts egging houses or dressing up as chainsaw murderers.
Not a thing when mine were younger so it’s all passed me by really.

Well I reckon Joan of Arc could have been a poster girl for the military if she hadn't been careless enough to have been burnt at the stake.

They're just jealous and rude you're doing something different to them. Does SIL have kids?

You may think it's a bit rubbish but a lot of churches actively preach against celebrating Halloween. Some run their own, alternative, light festivals on the same day so children can still attend

Thereis no need it is already a Christian festival, the clue is in the name -all hallows eve = Halloween. November 1st is all souls day, it is a religious festival, a holy day of obligation in Catholicism and a bank holiday in most of Europe.

But respect those who don't and leave us be too eh?

I think the reverse scenario is applicable to op,'s thread.

This thread is classic aibu.

It was always huge in Ireland, with a large RC population.

Yep, I grew up in Northern Ireland so a combo of Catholic and various, often very devout, Protestant denominations; and we always celebrated Halloween... Trick or treating, costumes, apple bobbing, toffee apples, (weirdly) coconuts. There is an annual Fireworks in my hometown on Halloween night; the biggest (used to be only one) of the year, with a carnival parade. A really significant portion of the city's entertainment budget. Everyone dresses up in costumes to attend, you would be an absolute odd one out if you didn't. It has only gotten bigger with a week of events and installations the norm around the town now.

The only changes in recent years is the addition of more home decorating and if pumpkins and pumpkin carving (pretty American, I think).

It is also only very recently that I have seen religious groups (tends to be the more extreme ones) protesting against the celebrations too. It's generally a minority voice and most people (Inc Catholics, Anglican, and most protestants) tend to think they're crackers and ott.

Nah, realistic and relevant; she's pointing out the extra irony of her in laws behaving like this (presumably due to religious "beliefs" when one is not even a practising Christian but uses the Church for rites of passage.

*It is also only very recently that I have seen religious groups (tends to be the more extreme ones) protesting against the celebrations too. It's generally a minority voice and most people (Inc Catholics, Anglican, and most protestants) tend to think they're crackers and ott.

Just to add, this year (for the first time I'm aware of something like this happening) a fundamental Christian religious group has protested against the Halloween parade, saying it shouldn't return from its Covid related suspension, and used the Parades Commission - really set up for managing contentious marching band parades during the summer - to do so. They will be responded to, with a decision, shortly before Halloween. They haven't, AFAIK, protested against the fireworks display (which had happened on Halloween night in the town for decades) I think even they know that they would probably end up lynched by the first cross denominational gang organised for the purpose.

Well @feindVicarInATutu Given your experience of Halloween is so much different from from mine - all I can say is if the evening causes you problems and stress in the way you say - I hope you have the most peaceful - evening possible. Genuinely where I am Halloween is not stressful & it is perfectly possible to opt out. Where my DB and DSIL live it is more parties in someone's house not in the street - they live about 300 miles away. Where my parents live also a completely different area of the country , the distance is too far to walk for little ones so they are never bothered.

But if you are or have to monitor unpleasantness I wish you & dog well and hope you get as good a night as possible - All best to you 😊💐

I do think there are people who are actively anti- Halloween.
I live in rural Scotland, and Halloween has been a big thing for many years- my grandmother used to go trick or treating ( or guising as it was known) complete with a turnip lantern in the 1890s.
When my kids were at primary school they were banned from any mention of Halloween- no pumpkin hair bobbles or Halloween snacks. A state school, the head was very religious and effectively banned Halloween at the school.
I know at least one church in my town that have a "Party of Light" on Halloween, with bright colours, fluffy costumes, nothing goulish- so obviously that church is anti Halloween.
My sister is very religious and dislikes Halloween, she thinks it is a gateway to the demonic, but won't have christmas trees or easter eggs for the same reason.
I think there are many christians, churches and groups who are spooked by Halloween.

Well, thing is, a keep my opinion about the nastier aspects of her religion to myself so think it's only fair she could do the same for our traditions.

So why not tell her that ^ to her face instead of complaining to a bunch of random strangers on the internet.
With a bit of luck she'll be so offended that she won't want to come next year.😆

I agree. I also don't agree with those who say its a new tacky American import. We were trick or treating in the early 80s. School had a halloween fancy dress disco every year and I went to a Catholic School. My Mum went to school in the 60s and remembers the same. The only real difference now is you can buy more themed stuff in the shops.

Back on the main topic, if Christmas was combined with an existing pagan winter solstice festival, wasn't Halloween (Eve of All Hallows/All Saints) combined with the existing end of summer/samhain festival.

So both are a combo of pagan and Christian festivals.

I have read one Christian minister arguing that Halloween is not "anti" Christian, to the contrary it involved people thumbing their nose at and making a joke out of occult things and "scary" things because they feel they can, because of Christianity and the security, "triumph over evil" etc. it represents.

Sorry to hijack the thread, but no, fake cobwebs are not likely to kill the box caterpillars. However, Xen Tari does, and can be purchased from reputable garden centres.