Halloween Judgement- keep your views to yourself

[HappyHalloweenWeenies]

I'm not religious and love Halloween. I have always celebrated it and my dp celebrates with me. Nothing too scary or out there because our kids are young. No chainsaw Massacre figures in garden or dripping blood, just the usual pumpkins, ghosts and witches, food and pre agreed trick or treating with neighbours. Our kids love it too for dressing up and have been taught in a fun way and not a 'celebrating evil' way.

Anyway, sil and mil invited themselves down this week. I didn't invite them and made it very clear to dp that as it was half term I would be doing the usual Halloween stuff so kids don't miss out. Dp fine with this and we arranged a few activities like pumpkin picking, carving etc. Sil and mil here the whole week. Both kids going to the village party but no expectation for either mil or sil and kids to attend, just one evening.

Anyway, sil been fine. A few questions about it, nothing phased rudely. Politely declined Halloween party, which we offered with the caveat if it's not her thing that is fine no judgement. Sil is a fairweather Christian, eg church for marriage and getting into schools so we weren't sure if we should ask or not but thought it would be rude not to.

Mil has been making a few snide comments. Kids watching ridiculously sanitised Halloween songs on TV (think cocomelon) and scoffs things like 'how can they have a 'happy halloween' with all those ghoulish characters? Trying to dissuade kids from their own pumpkin designs and do ones she approves of etc. It's all been very low key so I haven't mentioned it to dp but aibu to think that as she knows we have conflicting views and she invited herself down knowing full well we celebrate it she needs to keep her views to herself? It's starting to grate on me as I don't want my kids to start seeing evil in perfectly innocent dressing up etc.

I feel it's a bit like if we invited ourselves down at Christmas and then made snide comments about going to church.

Aibu or is sil approach better and mil is engaging in weird power games?

Halloween was a Scottish thing with neep lanterns when I was a child. It was one night.

It was absolutely not a month long festival of tat with pumpkins.

@TheLassWiADelicateAir

In my childhood it was school parties, brownie parties and then the big night of guising.

Now it includes decorations and emojis too. 😂😂😂🧙‍♀️💀👻🤩🎃

I’m with the OP. I never came across the Christian-rooted aversion to Halloween until I moved to the U.K. from a - at the time - very Catholic Ireland. Halloween is huge in Ireland - always has been and it has not come from the US, more the other way around. Its an ancient festival. It’s always been a fun time of year when winter is fast approaching and Christmas is too far away yet. It’s perfectly possible to be a devout Christian and not be offended by Halloween. Being offended is a choice. I recall when Halloween fell on a Sunday the whole parish would be in church in the morning and out partying dressed as witches and ghouls later that evening. People need to chill a bit.

Sorry . But it's a bloody nightmare for policing. Probably colours my view .

don't mean to pic on you, Vicar, because i really appreciate that you engage here. But when my parents' house, and the houses of the other Agéd Neighbours were being terrorised on halloween for putting out their lights (in the pre-agreed way to discourage trick or treeters) they were egged and had teenagers trampling the gardens and at least one car was keyed. Not a peep from the police even though they were called several times.

YANBU - it doesn’t matter what the celebration is if someone comes
to stay in your house then they tolerate what you want to do. If they dislike it they go home.

I have celebrated Samhain with my children every year while they were little. This year they are older so we aren’t doing so much, just a trip to a pumpkin patch, some pumpkin carving, and looking at old family photos and talking about those who have passed on. It’s the time of year where people celebrated the end of the harvest season - hence carving the last fruits (or veg, turnips were often used before this) and looking towards the dark season now the nights are noticeably drawing in. In our times we also move clocks back around this time. It’s a time to look to family and home and remember those who make up our support network. Bonfire night is a part of these same celebrations under a different guise as most of
our modern celebrations are.

feindVicarInATutu

I hate Halloween and everything about it

I've changed name (badly) for the annual Halloween name change contest

😂

Editing to add…The stories of actual criminal vandalism (egging and keying) are definitely not ok and should be treated as the crimes that they are.
But I don’t think that’s what the OP’s MIL is on about

Every Halloween act goes back to the Celts.

It was called guising. Kids dressed up as evil spirits to blend in with the spirits roaming the streets on samhain. They would knock on doors and be given an offering to ward of the evil spirits. That is not trick or treating.

Bonfires would be lit and turnips carved into lanterns, both to ward off evil spirits. Now pumpkins are used.

It is not an American holiday. It originated here. In Scotland, guising has always been done. Generations back, they were doing it. We dont call it trick or treating. We still call it guising.

To me it doesn't matter whether other people like/celebrate Halloween - you do, and if mil is going to invite herself to stay, it's rude to them complain about how you live!

Most children love Halloween and it's lovely to do activities with them while they're off for half term. Hope you can still enjoy it OP. Your kids will remember all what you did with them in years to come 👻

I sympathise up to a point, OP.

As a child long ago in the 70s (before the American version of Halloween had been imported) we made pumpkin lanterns and had toffee apples etc. All very innocent. I think T or T'ing was just starting to rear its ugly head, but it wasn't the norm.

I never made a big thing of it with my children (we made the lanterns though!). They never went T or T'ing because I dislike the thought of random people coming to houses uninvited, and still do. And it's just an alien import - that bit.

But my son's birthday is 26th October and whenever I sent out the party invitations I'd get the third degree from members of the big, evangelical church in the area. 'Was it a Halloween party?' they demanded to know - because, did I realise it was a celebration of evil, and very dangerous for the children? Same folk wouldn't allow their children to read Harry Potter.

It wasn't a Halloween party in the sense we understand today - there were pumpkin lanterns and orange decorations - otherwise not. But I think these paranoid people are ridiculous, firstly in holding such medieval views, and secondly for foisting them arrogantly on others.

I look at it this way: American Halloween keeps the onslaught ofChristmas merchandise and advertising at bay for a little longer!!!

(On another note - your post mentioned the word 'judgemental'. Off topic, but I really find this modern concept of not being allowed to judge very strange. It seems to me that it's OK to judge, as long as your ideas are in line with a certain world-view. If they're not, then you are judgemental!! Totally illogical. Human beings are hard-wired, from an evolutionary pov, to 'judge'. How on earth could they deduce and decide all kinds of things necessary for survival, if they didn't make an assessment of the evidence and act on it?. It comes up so much on MN, and I think I'm from the generation before being judgemental became a cardinal sin. I do judge...and I don't care who knows, so there!

I think it's OK to judge, as long as you don't act on your judgement to the detriment of others. We're all allowed opinions!)

God people are miserable on here😂
It's a holiday, kids love it.
MIL can do what she prefers in her own house but needs to respect what you do in yours!

it wasn't a thing when I was younger - it was more about bonfire night and penny for the guy! (Showing age!)

wow.

considering there are references to celebrating Halloween in Scotland right back to the 1600s, you must be over 400 years old.

I’m with you on this one OP and don’t see why some PPs seem to be personally blaming you for Halloween 🎃.

It’s a basic courtesy point about not inviting yourself to other people’s houses then criticising what they do and how they choose to live their lives (or bragging about themselves/their relatives and implying negative comparisons). We had similar IL issues until we went very LC.

Robert Burns wrote about guising. It has always been a big thing in Scotland. It is not new.

But I have learned from mumsnet that if it isnt an English tradition, then it is unheard of and "never happened in the UK. Was never a thing. Its American."

It isnt. America took it from us.

That's irrelevant IMO. There are people who do not go to church but pray daily and do all the other Christian related activities. Going to church every week doesn't mean you are more/ less of a Christian.

@CulturePigeon

Truck or treating is not an American import. They took it from us. Guising has been a custom in Scotland for hundreds of years. Kids in scotland have been doing it for hundreds of years.

Gosh there are some right judgemental joy suckers on here aren't there. Who never do anything that generates a single bit of waste ever. Ugh

YANBU @HappyHalloweenWeenies Your MIL is being really unreasonable to behave this way. She can like/dislike Halloween as much as she wants, but if you're in someone else's home, as a guest, it's just down right rude to be snide and dismissive about something they enjoy. How anyone can disagree with that is beyond me.

I never get the "Halloween is a new American thing" either. I'm 40 next year and have always loved Halloween and have so many fond memories of it as a child (carving a swede was a fucking bastard tho!😂). Yes there are generally more decorated houses nowadays, but it's always been a "thing" over here imo.

Like you, we love Halloween and treat it as a great crafting opportunity. Most of our decorations are home made (I may buy one new thing a year, if i see something i love, but they are added to the collection, the same as with Christmas, so not wasteful). We've grown our pumpkins this year and so excited to carve them and make some soup! Costume wise, it's possible to do it without consumerism and waste.

It sounds like you have a lovely week planned, try not to let MIL get to you. And god, the people on here who can't fathom people enjoying Halloween and being so bitchy and disdainful of those who do, maybe practice realising that people are all different and that's okay. We don't all have to like and enjoy the same things. Just because someone things differently to you, doesn't make you right and them wrong. The lack of compassion and empathy on this site really does boggle my mind at times. I guess this is AIBU, which alas seems to just give people licence to forget they are speaking to other human beings, and just spew bile to make themselves feel superior.

Have a wonderful Halloween OP.

I'm in Germany. We have Walpurgis Nacht (30th April) when all the witches fly around and get up to mischief - you have to bring in anything from your front garden that isn't bolted down or it will be taken and left somewhere for you to find. (or not, still gutted about a plant the little blighters moved about 20 years ago)

Now we have more and more children (with parents) coming round on Halloween and i love seeing them all dressed up. They know to come to us because we always have several carved pumpkins and decorations outside. I think one of the reasons it is spreading here is related to a) Walpurgis - this kind of "celebration" is deeply rooted in many European cultures and b) in many areas 1st Novmeber is a holiday (the reason for Halloween, in fact, it being All Saints' Day)

Don't worry OP you're not the only one who loves Halloween and makes it fun for the kids.
The posters being all pious and smug about commercialism are the same ones who buy their children a second hand book and a tangerine for Christmas and judge anyone who spends more. Lucky kids!🙂

As a Christian, I discourage my children from celebrating and wearing devil costumes for example. However, we do take part if they want to, sometimes with their friends in less scary costumes and we leave sweets out for the children in the neighbourhood.

I would respect their beliefs, however you would have to also make it clear that you will be celebrating halloween in your house so they are fully aware.

Nailed it!

She does sound a bit of a killjoy, but I’d try to shrug it off. I’m also of an era when it wasn’t nearly such a big thing - no tat in the shops! - but my dds loved it and I like to see children enjoying it.

At least she’s not as bad as some wretched woman last year - shortly before Halloween I’d bought plastic ‘witches’ fingers’ for little Gdcs and they were gleefully brandishing them in the high street when some ghastly old bag started ranting at them that Halloween was the work of the devil, etc. I moved them on sharpish, telling them she was bonkers.

As for pumpkin wastage, mine gets turned into a Thai style soup the next day - delish.

the Irish and Scots took it to America and Canada.

I was brought up Catholic by an Irish mum and we always ‘did’Halloween stuff like apple bobbing and later trick or treating with friends not parents so age 11+. Wasn’t a thing in 70s to go about with mums etc.
However I hate the horror that has replaced Halloween and I would never say ‘Happy Halloween’ your mil is right on that one. Spooky more like.