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Controversial murder cases (true crime documentaries) - guilty or not guilty?

227 replies

XelaM · 24/10/2022 13:14

I went down the rabbit hole of watching a number of true crime series and a few of the horrid cases have stuck in my mind. For example:

Tim Hennis - the decorated senior military officer who was convicted of the unbelievably brutal murder of the wife and two small children (5 and 3 year-old girls) of a fellow officer Gary Eastburn.

It's the "Double Jeopardy" episode on the "Death Row Stories" on Prime (free). I really can't get my head around this case and I keep thinking he is innocent. It just doesn't make sense. He was happily married with an infant daughter whom he adored, a decorated war hero who has (before and after the initial conviction) lived an absolutely picture-perfect life with not a single black mark against his character. How can this be reconciled with someone who stabbed two infant children 15 times each for apparently no reason at all other than to brutally rape and also absolutely savagely murder their mother? There was a lot of DNA at the scene, which didn't match his - male DNA under the fingernails of the victims, pubic hair, blood etc. It appears absolutely everyone was convinced this was a wrongful conviction. But then over 20 years later, the one bit of DNA that matched was the sperm inside the mother. He says they had consensual sex a few days before the murders, which also doesn't quite ring true. I really don't understand this case. It's such a tragedy for both the Eastburn and the Hennis families.

David Bain - the only survivor of the Bain family murders in NZ. I watched the "Bain Family Murders" series on Channel 4 (it's still on All 4) - not a documentary, but it's apparently very close to the real events. David was the sole survivor of the massacre of his whole family - father, mother, two sisters aged 19 and 18 and younger brother aged 14.

David was the eldest of the children at 22 and was allegedly doing his paper round when the murders took place. There was a typed note on the family computer saying "Sorry you're the only one who deserved to stay". There has been a lot debate about whether it was David or his father Robin who committed the murders. But having looked at the evidence (from what's available online) I cannot believe that David Bain is now free to walk the streets. There was so much evidence that he was the one who killed his whole family. The younger brother put up a huge fight and David could never explain the fresh injuries he sustained that morning; David's bloodied gloves were used on the gun (why would the father use gloves if he wanted to commit suicide?); David's broken glasses were found in the brother's room; the brother had fibres from David's sweater under his finger nails; David claimed to have heard his youngest sister gurgle up blood which scientifically would only have been possible if he was the killer; the way the father allegedly killed himself was almost an impossible position to recreate (and why would he use a silencer to make it even more awkward to kill himself?); he washed his clothes before calling the police and there was a bloodied finger print on the washing machine etc etc etc. It's so strange to me that his conviction was quashed based on the testimony of a few witnesses who claimed the youngest daughter was making contradictory claims that the father had abused her (I don't think that was ever proven to be true).

The Menendez brothers - the two sons of the famous Hollywood producer who murdered both their parents. Were they spoiled rich boys only after their parent's fortune or tragic victims of sexual abuse in fear for their lives? This is another Channel 4 documentary (I watched it on catch up on All 4).

Another very bizarre case. The multimillionaire Hollywood producer (who I believe produced Rambo and possibly Rocky) had the perfect Beverly Hills life with his wife and two good-looking seemingly carefree, typical "rich boys" sons. Until one day both he and his wife were brutally gunned down in their home. The murder was so brutal that the police initially thought this was a mafia hit and no one suspected the sons until the younger one stupidly confided in a crooked psychologist. The prosecution believed their only motivation was greed and money because the father was allegedly going to cut them out of his will. However, during the trial, they brought a totally unexpected defence - that they had been the victims of the most cruel sexual abuse at the hands of their father since early childhood and that they feared for their lives because they were going to expose their father. The mother apparently knew and enabled him. The defence had 51 witnesses (friends and family members) all testify what a horrible bastard the father was and it appears everyone hated him. But was he really sexually abusing his sons and were they really in fear for their lives when they killed their parents or were they just greedy rich boys after their parents' money? I'm really torn on this case. On the one hand, it's quite telling that the whole family on both sides is supporting them and that 51 witnesses all testified to say the father was an arsehole and their own evidence was very believable on the stand; however, the comments made by the elder brother after the first trial (that they managed to fool the jury) and their general behaviour and demeanour makes me think they made it up.

Anyone else interested in controversial convictions? Any opinions on either of the above cases or any other similar cases?

Apologies for the extremely long post 😬

OP posts:
SolviturAmbulando · 27/10/2022 16:22

SolviturAmbulando · 24/10/2022 16:32

It is, @XelaM @Laiste . Four witnesses have said they saw Noah cycling or running naked in that street on the Sunday he disappeared. Nobody helped him at all, and nobody even reported it until 24 hours later. Others present seen on the very short clips of CCTV disclosed - two men and the occupant(s) of a car - have not come forward or been traced as far as his mother and auntie are aware. Statements have been made and then retracted, potential evidence dismissed or kept secret and forensics not taken. It all smacks of a cover up and police incompetence. Noah's inquest is scheduled for later this month and a decision is awaited on whether that will be with a jury or just the coroner.

'WE HAVE BEEN ALLOWED A JURY FOR NOAH'S INQUEST. We are so grateful to Noah's legal team & the coroner. We went in defeated & have left grateful beyond words. Such an unexpected victory for Noah. Emotional, exhausted & feeling able to fight on knowing the right decision was made.'
Niamh Donohoe

XelaM · 27/10/2022 18:12

@SolviturAmbulando Oh, that's brilliant!! I so hope there will finally be a proper look into this case

OP posts:
Namechangedforthisonetoday · 27/10/2022 18:13

It’s just fantastic news. At last a glimmer of hope for Fiona and Niamh. I feel like the truth is finally coming now. Never underestimate the power of a mama fighting for her baby.

XelaM · 27/10/2022 18:25

To those who have recommended Jinx - thank you!! I heard about it before but never got round to watching it. I have binge-watched the whole thing now!

It's totally wrong and I feel like a total weirdo but I really liked Bobby Durst 😂(oh the shame 🥴). He was clearly extremely intelligent and very quick-witted and he thought he was smarter than anyone else in the room. The deadpan nonchalant way in which he said the most monstrous things somehow made him really likeable. 🤪 I won't give away the ending for anyone who hasn't yet seen it, but talk about a miscarriage of justice at his trial for the murder of Morris Black 😂😂😂 To say those lawyers were worth their weight in gold is an understatement. I think it's an even bigger scandal than OJ.

I think the eccentric millionaire act was a way to get people to underestimate him. He was extremely sharp and clearly absolutely furious with his father and grandfather for picking his younger brother to run the family empire over him. I must say I can't blame them 😂

OP posts:
Laiste · 27/10/2022 18:43

Fantastic news about Noah's case.

I've just binge watched (well there was only 4 episodes) the JonBennet case doc.

😮 Shocking on so many levels. 90% of the most revealing stuff was in the last episode. Those interviews with her brother a few days after his sisters death ... he gives zero fucks does he? He doesn't even bother pretending.

The comments throw up 2 interesting points.

  1. ''Now listen carefully''. The weird start to the ransom letter. The letter was probably dictated to the mother by the father and in her shock she just wrote down everything he said.
  2. That policeman who was first on the scene and was doing a quick scan of the house for an intruder didn't bother looking in the basement because the door was latched from his side. Well - how could the family's later story about the intruder leaving through the basement after hiding JBs body have any credence then?!
XelaM · 27/10/2022 18:54

Laiste · 27/10/2022 18:43

Fantastic news about Noah's case.

I've just binge watched (well there was only 4 episodes) the JonBennet case doc.

😮 Shocking on so many levels. 90% of the most revealing stuff was in the last episode. Those interviews with her brother a few days after his sisters death ... he gives zero fucks does he? He doesn't even bother pretending.

The comments throw up 2 interesting points.

  1. ''Now listen carefully''. The weird start to the ransom letter. The letter was probably dictated to the mother by the father and in her shock she just wrote down everything he said.
  2. That policeman who was first on the scene and was doing a quick scan of the house for an intruder didn't bother looking in the basement because the door was latched from his side. Well - how could the family's later story about the intruder leaving through the basement after hiding JBs body have any credence then?!

There is absolutely zero credibility to the intruder story. The ransom note alone should have been enough to indict the parents at least for the cover up and perverting the course of justice. Absolutely nothing pointed to an intruder

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Dogsogdog · 27/10/2022 19:09

Could Levi Bellfield be responsible for Billie jo Jenkins murder ?

Roominmyhouse · 27/10/2022 19:36

It’s not quite on topic but one that gets me is Kendrick Johnson. His case has been closed again but it just feels like there is more to this one.

www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna13868

Cantanka · 27/10/2022 19:52

I lose sleep over poor De’Orr Kunz. He looks just like my little boy, and is just so angelic and innocent looking.

he was a toddler when he vanished from an remote (and I mean incredibly remote) campsite where he was staying with his family, plus a random friend. It’s hard to believe he was abducted by a stranger given they were miles from civilisation. Possibly he wandered off into the wilderness, although no body has ever been found. The only other explanation would seem to be the family, who it is thought have not been truthful.

I don’t think it will ever be solved but I think of that poor boy often. Sometimes a case just hits you, and this one did with me.

XelaM · 27/10/2022 20:07

Roominmyhouse · 27/10/2022 19:36

It’s not quite on topic but one that gets me is Kendrick Johnson. His case has been closed again but it just feels like there is more to this one.

www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna13868

Never heard of this case but how could he have rolled himself into a matt?! That doesn't appear to make any sense

OP posts:
poweredbyplants · 27/10/2022 20:48

Dogsogdog · 27/10/2022 19:09

Could Levi Bellfield be responsible for Billie jo Jenkins murder ?

Is there a connection at all? Because you just as easily could say it could of been Peter Tobin, who I'm 100% sure had more victims who quite possibly now could never be discovered.

Dogsogdog · 27/10/2022 20:56

poweredbyplants · 27/10/2022 20:48

Is there a connection at all? Because you just as easily could say it could of been Peter Tobin, who I'm 100% sure had more victims who quite possibly now could never be discovered.

Just been reading a Reddit thread on it

poweredbyplants · 27/10/2022 21:02

Dogsogdog · 27/10/2022 20:56

Just been reading a Reddit thread on it

Yes i googled just now and came across the Reddit thread.

DashboardConfessional · 27/10/2022 21:07

Cantanka · 27/10/2022 19:52

I lose sleep over poor De’Orr Kunz. He looks just like my little boy, and is just so angelic and innocent looking.

he was a toddler when he vanished from an remote (and I mean incredibly remote) campsite where he was staying with his family, plus a random friend. It’s hard to believe he was abducted by a stranger given they were miles from civilisation. Possibly he wandered off into the wilderness, although no body has ever been found. The only other explanation would seem to be the family, who it is thought have not been truthful.

I don’t think it will ever be solved but I think of that poor boy often. Sometimes a case just hits you, and this one did with me.

I've read about this one and I'm not sure they ever even took him camping. It's only on their say-so. I think something happened before and this was the cover.

poweredbyplants · 27/10/2022 21:30

Kathleen Folbigg? The Baby Killer Conspiracy in on discovery+ (which I definitely recommend getting for documentaries)

Roominmyhouse · 27/10/2022 22:06

XelaM · 27/10/2022 20:07

Never heard of this case but how could he have rolled himself into a matt?! That doesn't appear to make any sense

I listened to a podcast episode about it, I think maybe Crime Junkie. There were so many odd things which happened around his death like school cctv being missed, and his organs being ‘lost’ by the funeral home. But yeah they basically said he went head first into a mat and died from positional asphyxiation. Just doesn’t seem likely from what I heard!

Takingonthejellybelly · 27/10/2022 22:26

😲

SandyY2K · 27/10/2022 22:30

@JadeSeahorse

Another one that leaves me very uncomfortable - although not a popular opinion - is the case of Jeremy Bamber.

I think he did it.
He's guilty.

His story on the night didn't make any sense. Who calls the local police station and not 999 for an emergency.

I don't believe it was his sister for a minute.

muddlingthrou · 28/10/2022 06:58

@MostTacticalNameChange interesting - thank you for the reply and the link!

I don't find weak alibis very convincing, as it's the police's job to prove someone was at the crime scene, rather than the other way around. I was really disturbed by some of the interrogation techniques too.

Maybe I'm slightly biased in Damian Echols' favour as I went through a Goth phase as a teenager and couldn't believe the reaction from some adults - particularly Christians - acting like I'd joined a satanic cult!

XelaM · 28/10/2022 07:11

Another documentary I forgot to mention is A Wilderness of Error (on Disney+) about the Jeffrey MacDonald family murders. He was the brilliant Princeton-educated, handsome green-beret army doctor with seemingly a perfect family.

Then his pregnant wife, with whom he had been since high school, and two little daughters get brutally murdered and he gets injured during (what he says) was an attack by hippies similar to that on Sharon Tate. Initially, he gets away with it!! For 10 years! His wife's parents were, to start with, his greatest supporters and his father-in-law even testified in his defence at the initial hearing. He was by all accounts a wonderful father and there was no indication that they were anything other than very happy.

However, his unbelievably arrogant and callous behaviour during the 10 years after his family's murders coupled with the huge inconsistencies in his story, make his father-in-law (his wife's step-dad) change his mind. Convinced of Jeffrey's guilt, he goes on a crusade to get him brought before a court a second time 10 years after the murders.

Despite all of Jeffrey's (despicable in my view) supporters and that a disturbed hippie woman supposedly confessed to the murders (although refused to confess on the stand when brought as a defence witness by his attorneys), I am absolutely convinced he is 100% guilty. Has anyone else seen the documentary?

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XelaM · 28/10/2022 07:18

muddlingthrou · 28/10/2022 06:58

@MostTacticalNameChange interesting - thank you for the reply and the link!

I don't find weak alibis very convincing, as it's the police's job to prove someone was at the crime scene, rather than the other way around. I was really disturbed by some of the interrogation techniques too.

Maybe I'm slightly biased in Damian Echols' favour as I went through a Goth phase as a teenager and couldn't believe the reaction from some adults - particularly Christians - acting like I'd joined a satanic cult!

I think the evidence against them was circumstantial and people were biased against Damian, but that doesn't mean they didn't do it. I still think they killed the boys

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XelaM · 28/10/2022 07:50

Just to add on the subject of A Wilderness of Error, in case anyone else has watched it, how amazing is the victim's step-father Freddy Kassab?! If only all step-fathers were like him. He clearly adored his step-daughter and the kids and went on an absolute mission and spent many years plus huge sums of money to force a re-investigation of this case. If not for him, the case would have been closed and forgotten about shortly after the murders with no outcome. I think Freddy initially testified in Jeffrey MacDonald's defence and was a huge supporter of his because he simply couldn't fathom (given Freddy's own character) how anyone could do such a thing to their gorgeous family.

Absolutely nothing in that documentary (or anything that Jeffrey or his supporters claim) convinced me that he was not guilty. He was in my view just a very well-educated upper-class version of Chris Watts. Utterly diabolical.

I found it so chilling how when the jury went back to look at the house, it turned out that (in 10 years) Jeffrey hadn't taken any of his wife's or kids' personal belongings or little cards/drawings they had made and just left them all there, but had taken the TV and stereo.

OP posts:
Dogsogdog · 28/10/2022 08:19

I think Jeremy Bamber is a narcissist and believes his own lies.

Namechangedforthisonetoday · 28/10/2022 10:13

Levi Bellfield and Peter Tobin killed many more. I think the police would put money on that. Certain things tie Levi to the scene of Lyn and Megan Russell’s deaths (although his gf at the time swears he was with her). I’ve always wondered whether Peter Tobin was Bible John.

KimberleyClark · 28/10/2022 10:29

I just watched Deceit which is a drama based on the Rachel Nickell/Colin Stagg case. Amazing that the police had nothing linking him to the crime other than circumstantial evidence and something they thought amounted to a confession but was actually nothing of the sort. And that the actual murderer, Robert Napier, struck again while Stagg was in police custody, this time killing Samantha Bisset and her little daughter Jazmine, but that murder got nothing like the amount of media attention Rachel Nickell did, possibly because Samantha was a single mother living in a council flat rather than a pretty middle class former model.