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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think paying my daughters debts enables her

181 replies

Rowinandgowin · 21/10/2022 17:21

recently my daughter had two friends come to me and tell me she had borrowed a substantial amount of money off them each, she started ignoring them and reached out to me to talk to her. This was a few months apart and I’m really disappointed. Another friend had mentioned they had lent her money and never got it back.

i feel really upset, my daughter is quite vulnerable, she doesn’t work, she had two kids very closely together, two under two. Her childrens father left her with a huge rent to pay and I have spent a lot of money on sorting her out each month as she can’t make ends meet. I would love to have her back home but I have no space. Now she is borrowing money off friends that I have had to pay back, I’ve spoken to her in tears as I fear she will end up even lonelier. I suppose I paid up to try to mend things but these friends want nothing to do with her. I feel so sad as she wouldn’t apologise to them and it’s like she is self sabotaging

OP posts:

SofaLola33 · 21/10/2022 18:57

Rowinandgowin · 21/10/2022 17:51

I’m not angry at her friends, at all I understand why they came to me. She was upset at being publicly embarrassed. I know I am enabling her, I spoilt her growing up as I was a single mum and I felt guilty. Now I feel guilty I can’t fix her problems. I just feel publicly exposing her wasn’t the kindest move

I don’t blame her friend for putting it on social media, I’m sure it was a last ditch effort to get her money back.
Im a single mum, only 1 child but I live within my means, paying off her debts and for her car clearly do nothing and she needs to learn that she can’t live that way!

Cw112 · 21/10/2022 18:59

There's ways your daughter can manage this. She needs support from debt action or similar. CAP also run life skills and budgeting classes she could join and they'll help her develop a budget she can stick to. I'd be trying to work out a fortnightly or monthly budget for her. She could sell the car and get a cheaper model. She could claim that she's unable to afford her rent alone and apply for social housing and housing benefit. And I would say she needs to set up a repayment plan with you even if it's just £5 a fortnight until she's paid off the loans you covered for her. She's prioritising things that will make her feel good in the moment which I can understand but it's not real life and she is responsible for the running of her household with two kiddos to provide for so she needs to get to grips with her finances. Bailing her out doesn't help her unless you do it in a way where she learns from it.

Beautiful3 · 21/10/2022 19:00

I would tell her friends not to lend her any more money. If they ignore you, and tell you about it, do not apologise and repay them. This is between your daughter and her friends.

EmmaH2022 · 21/10/2022 19:00

Rowinandgowin · 21/10/2022 17:48

she has struggled a lot with depression, and being a single mum to two very young children she does it all

I have battled D&A all my life
it doesn't mean I am vulnerable

how is her rent paid? How is she paying for uni? What happens about childcare?

her friends know not to lend money now. If she asks you for money then you need to pay bills directly eg pay her leccy bill, don't just give her x amount.

Maytodecember · 21/10/2022 19:01

Although the friend posting on SM seems mean, if it warns other friends against lending your DD money that will help her in the long run.
Don’t give your DD money. If you feel you have to give something a bag of food or laundry and cleaning stuff will help. She has to learn to budget or she’s going to get herself into huge debt which will count against her and take years of work to clear.

Notanotherwindow · 21/10/2022 19:01

Why do her friends owe her any kindness? She scammed them and stole from them.

If the situation was reversed and it was your daughter who had been tricked and stolen from, would you tell her not to out them as it wasn't very kind? Of course you wouldn't! Your daughter is a liar and a thief and doesn't deserve kindness from the people she's conned. She is lucky not to be in court for it.

Caroffee · 21/10/2022 19:03

Yes, it's enabling her. I worked with a woman who continually ran up debts. Her parents always paid then off (totalling more than £40k) and paid two-thirds of her rent, paid for her holidays etc. She never learned a lesson and continued to run up debt. It would have been better for her to be declared bankrupt so that she couldn't keep accessing more and credit. She was a selfish and entitled individual who thought the world owed her a living and that everybody should run around doing things for her. Stop enabling your daughter. Stop paying off her debts.

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 21/10/2022 19:04

Your dd will end up even more depressed if she keeps spending money she hasn’t got.

A friend of a dd (working, no dcs) was endlessly bailed out by her parents but kept spending on clothes/makeup/expensive bags, etc. Her cc debt finally amounted to over £35k - but she still went on spending, and was eventually made bankrupt.

That did finally sort her out, but the problem had built up over many years of not being made to live within her (perfectly adequate) means.

momtoboys · 21/10/2022 19:06

Rowinandgowin · 21/10/2022 17:24

Well she just has got back off holiday! She has decided to go to uni so she’s spent her loan on that. She will splash out for silly stuff then come to me to pay her debts, or help pay for her expensive car. It’s so hard to see her struggle though

You cannot be serious! When I read your first post I thought she needed help for food or heat, etc. I would never bail her out in this instance. And, you are not responsible for money that others have been dumb enough to lend her. I'm kind of glad you don't have room for her - imagine how she would take advantage of you if she were living with you!

WhereYouLeftIt · 21/10/2022 19:07

You have to stop bailing her out. You are enabling her to continue behaving this way, and that has to stop. But you know that already, you're just finding it hard to do.

Give her a heads up. Tell her upfront that you will be giving her no more money, not one penny, before she asks you for money. Doesn't matter what she says it's for, doesn't matter if it is actually going to be spent on food because that'll only happen because she's already pissed her own money up the wall on holidays and an expensive car.

You will find it very difficult to say no to her, and she will find it very difficult to accept that you're saying no. Nonetheless, you NEED to say no. Otherwise, she will continue stealing from friends (what else can you call it?), alienating them and becoming increasingly isolated.

You describe her as "quite vulnerable" - why?

"Her childrens father left her with a huge rent to pay and I have spent a lot of money on sorting her out each month as she can’t make ends meet." Do you mean he left her with debt, or that she's renting an expensive home? If the latter then she needs to look for somewhere cheaper to stay.

"... it’s like she is self sabotaging" - all the more reason to tell her 'no more'. Don't draw it out, bring it to a head.

momtoboys · 21/10/2022 19:08

Rowinandgowin · 21/10/2022 17:48

she has struggled a lot with depression, and being a single mum to two very young children she does it all

Oh, please...do you know how many single moms of small children are on Mumsnet who don't take advantage of and steal from their friends or their mums? She had those children, not anyone else. If she hooked up with a loser that is her problem.

GreenLunchBox · 21/10/2022 19:09

I thought this couldn't be real- that somebody really has that attitude to money. But the fact that you've enabled her to the extent you have makes me think it's your fault and your daughter is some kind of victim in this!

Frazzled2207 · 21/10/2022 19:09

Stop paying her debts today.
if you want to help, buy her food and perhaps clothes/essentials for the kids. Unacceptable for your money to go towards holidays and posh cars or otherwise for her to get into debt for these.

she needs to learn quickly to live within her means. Who will be looking after the kids while she is at uni?

DelphiniumBlue · 21/10/2022 19:11

Rowinandgowin · 21/10/2022 17:51

You know, for the friends to go that far, they must have repeatedly asked for her to pay them back, and rather than do so, she has bought a new car and gone on holiday. I expect it was very much a last resort rather than a first step. She should be upset, upset that she has let her friends down. But she's upset that she's been called out, not that she was scamming her friends in the first place.

You are still enabling, and you seem to be understating what has actually happened. Make it clear that this ends now, that you have paid back her friends as you are so embarrassed and don't want them to lose out, but you won't be doing it again.

WhereYouLeftIt · 21/10/2022 19:11

Rowinandgowin · 21/10/2022 18:45

She is 26. Old enough to know better. Thank you everyone for giving me a reality check. I feel like she does maybe manipulate me, I love her very much and want to get through to her, she just needs to get back on her feet again.

"she just needs to get back on her feet again."
And that is how she manipulates you into bailing her out - again. To 'get her back on her feet'. NO. MORE. Bailing her out doesn't work, it doesn't get her back on her feet, it just gives her the leeway to piss it up the wall again. NO. MORE.

GoldenCupidon · 21/10/2022 19:13

"I do think it goes deeper than not paying people back and it’s a bit scary"

It MIGHT, but on the other hand it likely does not. She likes nice, expensive things (don't most people) and she can't afford them. Where she differs from most people is she hasn't got any qualms about taking money off other people for this.

I honestly think it's an attitude thing, even though I totally get that as your mum it's more palatable to think she's "struggling".

Boymumsoymum · 21/10/2022 19:14

Rowinandgowin · 21/10/2022 18:52

She loves nails hair etc. I am only recently learning of the extent of these problems, she obviously cannot afford the life she is living but doesn’t want to change. I am seeing her tomorrow so I will have a talk with her, I do think it goes deeper than not paying people back and it’s a bit scary

OP I'm sorry but you need to bear a bit of responsibility here - you raised her, did you never point out to her the need to work to afford nice things?!
How have you not questioned it when you've seen lovely hairdo's/colours, professionally done nails, a nice car, when you know she does not work and earn money 😳 I'm honestly flabbergasted that you've handed over money to her and don't feel a fair bit of shame that you've raised a daughter so entitled 😳
It's harsh I know but you need to give both her, and yourself, a stern talking to.

Stravaig · 21/10/2022 19:14

Are you saying she's taken her student loan which is supposed to support her studies, and has spent it on a holiday? When she already owed her ex-friends money, and regularly scrounges large amounts off you too? As a 26 year old mother of two very young children?

Words fail me. You need to cut her off financially, and get social services involved if you're worried about her ability to care for her children.

saleorbouy · 21/10/2022 19:15

She needs to get her financial priorities right. Holidays and expensive cars are a long way down my list of "essentials", until she suffers from her irresponsibility she won't learn to budget and prioritise.
Bailing her out is not going to teach her this.
Sure being a single mother is not easy but she's not making great decisions to help herself.

GlasgowGa90 · 21/10/2022 19:16

Has she been to the GP about her depression? That should be the first call of action if you want to support her. Other than that help her get onto lists for Social Housing? There are lots of ways you can offer support that aren't financial. She might not listen though. My sister was like this (My sister was worse!), so I get how stressful it is for you.

TheHouseonHauntedHill · 21/10/2022 19:16

@Rowinandgowin

People don't usually want to live like this.

Can you help her by giving her support as pp mentioned.

Sure you could come down on her like a ton of bricks,scare her and tell her how awful she is .

Or give her a ladder out?

A ladder of specific target help.

Does she socialise and want to go out it will be much easier all around if you can help her get what she needs to get through this and work out what she needs £# and how to get it.

Eg offer to babysit or have DC if she gets a night job but..you will babysit so she can go out etc.

It's best to be pragmatic I think. Work with what you have.

Original poster

Rowinandgowin · 21/10/2022 19:18

I do babysit, I watch them when she needs. Her childrens auntie helps and the kids are with their dad at weekends.

I have just found out she is in a relationship! I understand I have enabled her but I never felt like she would take advantage of me, I have always been there to support her and we have always been close. I am disappointed, disappointed in me and her, it stops now.

OP posts:

Gymnopedie · 21/10/2022 19:18

I’ve spoken to her in tears

I have sat down and cried to her

These tears may have been from genuine frustration, but if you had a chink of hope that they would also prick her conscience and persuade her to change her ways you were on a hiding to nothing. She doesn't think she's doing anything wrong and therefore there is no conscience to be pricked. She's blaming her friends when the fault is entirely hers.

And I'm not surprised you paying them back hasn't got the friendships going again. SHE hasn't made any effort at all to pay them back or put things right, so why would they want anything to do with her?

Washyourownfeet · 21/10/2022 19:18

Why are you enabling her, she’s stealing money from her friends, they’ve been good enough to help her out and she just takes the piss, she’s your daughter and you expect people that have been scammed by her to put up and shut up, life’s not like that and it’s time she realized that she can’t go through life being an arsehole, she may be special to you but to the poor sods she’s robbed she’s an arsehole.

MeowMeowPowerRangers · 21/10/2022 19:21

You're the problem as you keep enabling her, she doesn't deserve a certain type of lifestyle - if she wants that type of lifestyle she needs to go out and EARN it, not steal off her friends and get mummy to pay for it all.

Seriously you're doing her no favours - she'll end up with nobody if you let this continue.

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