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Liz Truss has resigned. Part 3: The Return of the King?

998 replies

sunnydaytoday0 · 21/10/2022 10:40

Continuation from last thread.

By Monday we could have a new prime minister, and by next Friday at the latest.

Will Sunak win this time, or could Johnson get his old job back? Would the Tory members once again go against the wishes of the MPs?

And yes I think Johnson sees himself as some sort of world king..

OP posts:
Thread gallery
23
LexMitior · 21/10/2022 13:50

@ILeclercreturn - I agree. It is very sad what has happened to the UK. It is actually a place of erudition and expertise.

A lot of the global comment about us is very critical and says how rotten our institutions have become. I think that is because there was not a lot to stop someone like Johnson or Truss overriding the conventions by which the UK governs itself. Those conventions have made us a stable nation. Now we are not.

Unless we have a return to that, we will continue to be a basket case of a country. That is sad for a place with so much capability and talent. But it is what corruption and poor leadership does.

DuncinToffee · 21/10/2022 13:57

And now a Downing Street spokesman has said that major fiscal decisions will be for the next prime minister, so they could delay Hunt's Halloween budget.

Blocked · 21/10/2022 14:00

Croque · 21/10/2022 13:26

I bet there are some stonking tabloid stories in the pipeline for this weekend! Johnson vs Sunak is going to be the dirtiest of battles. It has all the necessary components : betrayal of trust, defeat, unspoken criticism, unresolved tensions, unexpected resurrection of battlefield. They have a week to completely dismantle one another.

Expect Dominic Cummings to stick his oar in at some point too.

hesbeingabitofadick · 21/10/2022 14:03

Anyone know how soon a by-election can be organised...or how long it can be held up?

Chris Matheson quits

Dave20 · 21/10/2022 14:04

Sunak atleast understands economics. His wife’s tax affairs don’t bother me too much, he’s the best option we have.
He said what would happen if Truss went ahead with her plans and he was right.
He doesn’t need the money , I’d like to think he’ll bring some calm back to our finances and provide some stability.
Any candidate that support led Truss should be barred.
Of course the right wing Tories won’t want Sunak.

Hmmph · 21/10/2022 14:11

Thanks Redtoothbrush!

Inanun2 · 21/10/2022 14:12

SleeplessInEngland · 21/10/2022 13:49

Sunak backers are now retweeting resignation letters from people who left the johnson cabinet and are now, mysteriously, backing him again. Let battle commence.

Some MPs and the general public have no shame and absolutely no moral or social conscience. I really worry about what’s happening in the country and whether it will ever improve as people seem so selfish and self centered . IMO

RedToothBrush · 21/10/2022 14:23

One of my fears about the Brexit ref (and I wrote this at the time) was it would remove a layer of accountability from the uk and place it in the hands of the right wing of the Tory party who could then do what they liked. It would make us not more democratic as suggested but would actually work against us in terms of democracy. The whole point was in not defining Brexit, it gave that job to individuals who already had power to make those decisions unilaterally.

I know I posted about this in June 2016.

A lot has happened since then.

The Tory Conference in October 2016 with May's bonkers speech which went far further than it needed to, rather than rolling back to a sensible debate about the single market (which was very much still an option at that point). May could have presided over a more moderate course of events had she done that.

The art 50 farce further did this by removing even more scrutiny. Both were unforced errors of judgement that ultimately tipped us into a chain of increasing chaos.

I do think May eventually realised her mistakes on this but by this point she had become something of the architect of her own misery. She was so determined to prove her commitment to Brexit she listened to the wrong voices at the wrong time (Truss was arguably guilty of the same in even less favorable circumstances). Her deal was the last opportunity to stop far worse and she realised that.

The trouble was that people who should have realised that and could have stopped that also didn't recognise this point and went for broke on Remaining. I think that's a catastrophic error which blame has to go beyond the Tory party and its what gives me cause for concern about British Politics way beyond Johnson and the Tory Party.

Johnson and the current Tory Party could not have got to this point without the entire political climate being the way it was. You can't just blame the right wing media for that. You can blame the smearing of Corbyn. There is something about how the opposition parties also handled the last 6 years (and beyond) that's led to us getting here. It may well play out well for Labour in the long run but probably not the public at large.

May realised that politics needed realignment. Her solution was off though. She did understand the shitty shit of politics better than Truss (and clearly sometimes used dodgy tactics herself).

The one thing that makes her stand apart from her two successors was she clearly had a sense of duty to the public that I've not seen since. She just fucked it.

Where Truss was for the last 6 years to so fundamentally lack the grasp of needing to bring political opponents along with you and understanding how much political capital she had was bonkers. I could understand it if she'd lived under a rock or was a backbencher but not she was front line. She was part of that dreadful front cover about the judges and how it undermined the office of the Lord Chancellor. She's lack judgement on a much bigger scale and much more consistently than May. May at least did eventually get down to details and realised the heart of the problems (bit only after she'd screwed herself first)

Johnson on the other hand has only ever been out to serve himself. Even now standing for election is about his ego rather than stability for the country or even the best interests of his own party!

All bonkers.

I still feel like there's few people who have any grasp of any of it. Chances. The lot of them.

Fifiesta · 21/10/2022 14:23

‘Return of the King’ ?
That would be ‘The Lying King’ then, without the benefit of the music.
If the Tory boys really think that they can sell that flaccid scumbag back to the public
the GE cannot happen early enough.

ILeclercreturn · 21/10/2022 14:24

What the UK really needs is someone with an internationally known track record, maybe Heseltine or even Blair, a Prime minister (or senior cabinet member who did understand the concept of diplomacy and stability, even if it wasn't so apparent at the time. Now they are just 'kids in the park' messing around while the strategic work (often leading to destruction) has been done. the Australian and Japanese trade 'deals' should be reappraised before full ratification because their effects will be ruinous for the UK. Have any politicians made any suhggestions about how the UK might move forward or are we all just waiting for the UK to implode? None of the real causes (dissatisfaction with the government) of Brexit have been addressed with a workable plan. Yes 'levelling up' was mentioned but only as a bribe to get Boris into power. In reality eveything has just been sliding downwards since the referendum.

RedToothBrush · 21/10/2022 14:24

*You cant blame the smearing of Corbyn

Fucking fingers and thumbs this afternoon

CaveMum · 21/10/2022 14:32

Something has happened.

I looked at betting exchange Smarkets about 45 minutes ago before I had to pop out and it was showing Rishi at odds of 2.1 and Boris on 2.2. I've just logged back on, and Rishi is now into 1.77 and Boris out to 2.98. That's a huge shift in odds and looking at the patterns Boris is drifting like a barge!

RedToothBrush · 21/10/2022 14:35

CaveMum · 21/10/2022 14:32

Something has happened.

I looked at betting exchange Smarkets about 45 minutes ago before I had to pop out and it was showing Rishi at odds of 2.1 and Boris on 2.2. I've just logged back on, and Rishi is now into 1.77 and Boris out to 2.98. That's a huge shift in odds and looking at the patterns Boris is drifting like a barge!

Betting following the markets?
Which in turn will influence MP?
Or that standards report is about to get leaked?
Or Johnson isn't standing?

NightNite · 21/10/2022 14:36

CaveMum · 21/10/2022 14:32

Something has happened.

I looked at betting exchange Smarkets about 45 minutes ago before I had to pop out and it was showing Rishi at odds of 2.1 and Boris on 2.2. I've just logged back on, and Rishi is now into 1.77 and Boris out to 2.98. That's a huge shift in odds and looking at the patterns Boris is drifting like a barge!

I was just about to post that they were virtually joint favourites and suddenly Boris has drifted to almost 2/1.
Something must have happened.

CaveMum · 21/10/2022 14:36

Screenshot of the graphs, Rishi is the green line and Boris the red. You can see they came very close together an hour or so ago but now Rishi is powering ahead.

Liz Truss has resigned. Part 3: The Return of the King?
CaveMum · 21/10/2022 14:36

Betting has just been suspended, that means an announcement is either imminent or someone somewhere has insider info.

hesbeingabitofadick · 21/10/2022 14:37

Ladbrokes unchanged Rishi 5/6 Boris Evens; William Hill has Rishi 8/11 and Boris 11/8.

FinallyHere · 21/10/2022 14:39

@notdaddycool

If Johnson did indeed get Brexit Done, why is the UK still not routinely levying import taxes on goods coming into the UK from the EU

Why do some in government threaten to rip up the NI protocol which yes they signed.

How is the brilliant, better than offered to the EU trade deal with US going. With anyone else going?

Or are these elements intact not solved because the solution is so unpalatable but the media have move on?

I'd be very interested to know what you think.

CaveMum · 21/10/2022 14:40

Scratch my last comment, looks like there was low liquidity in the market hence the suspension. It’s back up now but Rishi is shorter than ever at 1.66.

RedToothBrush · 21/10/2022 14:42

CaveMum · 21/10/2022 14:36

Betting has just been suspended, that means an announcement is either imminent or someone somewhere has insider info.

It will be the gilts.

That got noticed an hour ago

The market doesn't like Johnson.

That will make it difficult for him to win. MPs can't ignore it.

Liz Truss has resigned. Part 3: The Return of the King?
SleeplessInEngland · 21/10/2022 14:43

Johnon trails both Sunak and Mordaunt in head to heads when all voters are asked:

Opinium
@ OpiniumResearch
🚨LATEST POLLING🚨
Overnight we ran three head-to-heads between the most likely Conservative leadership candidates. The results were:

> Sunak 45% vs 23% for Mordaunt
> Sunak 44% vs 31% for Johnson
> Mordaunt 36% vs 33% for Johnson

FinallyHere · 21/10/2022 14:46

Johnson is also under investigation by the Privileges Committee for potentially misleading the House. Apparently with evidence so damning it would lead to a Commons suspension...

If enough MPs are prepared to vote for Johnson in these circumstances, then I do genuinely despair.

What do they care about so much more than honesty, integrity. If you can't believe that they say, then what chance do we have.

CaveMum · 21/10/2022 14:46

BBC have a list of who has declared for who so far. Their count is a bit more, cough, conservative: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63343308

Rishi - 56
Boris - 33
Penny - 17

sunnydaytoday0 · 21/10/2022 14:47

I can't remember which poster said it now, but whoever said that other countries have governments and the UK has tory popularity contests was spot on.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 21/10/2022 14:47

Henry Mance AT henrymance
I’m backing Boris, because British businesses want certainty, and with Boris in charge, they can be certain of a **show.

To put it bluntly, this is the message thats been circulating in various forms since lunchtime.

Markets are responding to it.

Swipe left for the next trending thread