To think secondary school rules are harsh and missing the point

[craxyrulebraker]

DS has just started secondary I just think it is all too much and the focus is all wrong.

You have to ask to take your blazer or jumper off
warning about the 'wrong' type of PE shorts, etc
Not allowed to drink water in lessons
Cautions for forgotten kit
Detentions for homework not complete - even when its not clear who/how to hand it in

Meanwhile very little nurture or pastrol care; poor communication so children don't know what is always expected of them, but scared they will get a detention; hardly any SEN support; very little staff presence at break/lunch times or in corridors; problems with bullying. Schools can't do these basics but tell the kids off for wearing the 'wrong' grey trousers!!

You haven't really engaged in a reasonable debate. You've been rude about teachers, made false claims about what we do/don't teach, and haven't come up with anything more than 'teach mortgages via coursework'.
I can see why @Pumperthepumper is frustrated.

Ah, that’s a shame for the children. Now we’ll never know how to make their education more useful.

@Catfordthefifth

You've actually been very insulting and goady. Reread your posts and think about how they could be taken.

I haven't been rude about teachers at all. The other poster was rude about me but apparently that's fine. I haven't explained what my opinion is because I've been told it's all in my head anyway, why would I then explain what I think might be useful?
Why would I engage with someone who thinks I'm thick and actually doesn't give a shit about my opinion and just wants to tell me I'm wrong?

Maybe you could explain that.

I'll pass on that, thank you.

You just can't help yourself can you, it's embarrassing.

Back to your comment @Catfordthefifth about schools not teaching life skills. I can assure you that primary schools (I cannot comment on secondary schools as I have experience of them) absolutely do and it's something as an educator I take very seriously.

I haven't read through all the posts, so I don't know if someone has made this point already, although I can imagine I'm not saying anything new.

If every child in the school came from a home where they were nurtured, loved, disciplined and cared for then the strict rules wouldn't be necessary, because otherwise all the children would be prepared and would know what is acceptable behaviour.

It's heartbreaking how many children have parents in prison, or who are living with drug addicts or simply have parents that couldn't care less if their uniforms are clean. These kids need love, support and stability. That's where pastoral staff come in and support with uniform, equipment, food and so forth. Once they have everything a child should normally get from home, they have to follow the rules like everyone else.

Obviously exceptions are made for SEN students, but for the most part they are still expected to follow the rules like everyone else and will suffer the consequences like everyone else.

I'm glad to hear that.

I agree.

We teach the curriculum and what we're required to teach at GCSE, but hope that before year 10 and 11 we might have instilled a love of learning in some children at least.

And we do teach life skills - behaviour, following rules is a life skill (like it or not), as well as other values that hopefully make young people considerate and responsible members of society. Children come to school at completely different starting points depending on their experiences so far.

This is rich, coming from you, who actually did the same to me yesterday. You've itching for a fight the whole way through this thread.

You're arguing for the sake of it - you're not using this to discuss anything. You just seem to be raging and venting at anyone who has a different opinion to you.

Hi all

This is turning into a bunfight between a couple of posters, now.
Please can you stop engaging with each other so that the thread can continue?

Peace and love.

Hahahaha, okay.

I think schools do not encourage a love of learning at any level - they suck the joy out of every subject, only the very odd teacher manages to inspire.
If your child has a love of learning it didn’t come from school, it survived despite school.

I think schools do not encourage a love of learning at any level - they suck the joy out of every subject, only the very odd teacher manages to inspire.
If your child has a love of learning it didn’t come from school, it survived despite school

Ludicrous generalisation. If you want to say that your experience of school was like this, then do so.

There are lots of sweeping generalisations on here from people whose only experience of schools comes from their own experience many years ago or the experience of their DC.
I wouldn’t make comments about how others should go about their occupations that I have no knowledge of. Of course teachers are going to get defensive when posters who think that making sure their DC logged into a computer during lockdown suddenly qualifies as teaching experience. Dealing with 30+ kids in one classroom is challenging. We also don’t get to decide what to teach or even in some cases how to actually teach it. I’ll take these suggestions or judgments about what is a necessary rule etc seriously when you’ve spent at least a term in a secondary classroom.

Wow. It’s been a busy evening for some…

Finance is taught in year 8&9 and
Careers is taught in Year 9, 10 & 11 at my DD’s school.
PSHE (Personal, social, health) is taught from Y7-11.
Very bog standard comprehensive.

Not all schools are the same.

@Feart’s post above sums up the problem on here perfectly.

So again basically nobody is allowed an opinion unless they're a teacher maybe get MN to do a pinned post just so we are all aware that nobody else should comment.

Of course you’re allowed an opinion @Catfordthefifth.
Others are allowed an opinion too.

Other people can disagree with your opinion and you can disagree with their opinion.

The problem is, sometimes people confuse opinion with fact…

…and fact with opinion.

@Feart you're spot on. So many people' ideas about schools and teachers comes from their own experience.

And it's a really horrible thought that we kill all love of learning. I realise it happens for some students, but there are definitely some students at my school who appear to enjoy learning.

Yes, they do, don't they. Maybe read the post above yours again.

And all the other posts aimed at me where actually I'm not supposed to give my opinion because it's all in my head.

Nowhere have I presented anything as a fact. I've explicitly said it's my opinion and I've still been shot down, so please, stop.

@Catfordthefifth

Maybe people on this thread have just been disagreeing with your opinion?

I’ve read the thread and you definitely have a fixed mindset when it comes to teachers and schools. Plenty of people will disagree with your opinion and plenty will agree.
Those who disagree with you are not bullying you, they are presenting you with a counter-argument, telling you why they think your opinion is wrong and backing it up with examples from their own experience.