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Original poster

To think secondary school rules are harsh and missing the point

751 replies

craxyrulebraker · 19/10/2022 22:19

DS has just started secondary I just think it is all too much and the focus is all wrong.

You have to ask to take your blazer or jumper off
warning about the 'wrong' type of PE shorts, etc
Not allowed to drink water in lessons
Cautions for forgotten kit
Detentions for homework not complete - even when its not clear who/how to hand it in

Meanwhile very little nurture or pastrol care; poor communication so children don't know what is always expected of them, but scared they will get a detention; hardly any SEN support; very little staff presence at break/lunch times or in corridors; problems with bullying. Schools can't do these basics but tell the kids off for wearing the 'wrong' grey trousers!!

OP posts:
eddiemairswife · 19/10/2022 22:38

This water business. They aren't going to dry up after a few hours without water. Most people can go all day not having a drink.

ForfuckssakeEXHstopbeingatwat · 19/10/2022 22:40

I think what is often missed in these discussions is that you're not just dealing with one kid taking their blazer off or forgetting their kit or homework or whatever. It's 1000 plus. All in one place. If you don't set high expectations you are v v quickly dealing with an impossible number of issues and any semblance of actually doing what you are meant to do disappears quite quickly. It's all about nuance though. In my school kids have to and do ask to take off their blazer but are never told no, and usually if it's warm or when the first kid asks me I give a general permission for all of them. They may not be allowed water because of tech, or it's a science lab or bloody bottle flipping. Homework deadlines are possibly unclear because the child didn't write it down fully. There will always be arsehole, reactionary teachers on power trips that give this kind of thing a bad name but as a teacher of 20+ years I do generally see the need for it, purely because, as I said at the start, a thousand kids cannot be managed in the same way you would 1 or 2. It has to be universal, but with a layer of humanity and understanding if the teacher has the experience and balls to vary their reaction to the situation...child X practically crying in fright because they've missed a deadline, no detention, child Y giving it attitude and "yeah, forgot miss, soz' then it's a different story and I'd happily defend that. Some teachers find it hard to do that so prefer a zero tolerance approach which inevitably causes problems.

PlasticBagOdyssey · 19/10/2022 22:42

YANBU. The level of control in schools is too much, stripping young people of autonomy over their own basic comfort is an overreach of power. I don’t think any of us would accept this level of micromanagement and control in our working or personal lives so I fail to see why it’s ok for kids? What sort of message are we teaching them about what matters and how to take care of your body and mind?

This is just the tip of a broken education system though. More and more kids are getting burnout from school based trauma.

Msgrieves · 19/10/2022 22:42

My kids school is like this, more like a prison. I really admire them getting on with it, pretty sure I would have been a school refuser. My school wasn't great but at least you were treated like an individual for the most part.

Calandor · 19/10/2022 22:44

Hercisback · 19/10/2022 22:36

@Calandor Because some kids are twattish enough to knock each others bottles over. Some kids are twattish enough to have water fights. Some kids accidentally spill water everywhere. Some kids tap/flip the bottles. Some kids get distracted by the bottles. Some kids use 'I'm having a drink' as an excuse to do no work.

Better for everyone to not have bottles out during lessons. I turn a blind eye if students drink right at the start or right at the end of a lesson. There's no reason they need more than one drink an hour.

So why not just say bottles must be in bags except for when drinking. If a kid messes with it put it in your desk.

Maybe if it's because I was a good kid at school but this rule would have riled me. Or maybe it's because I hate being thirsty.

echt · 19/10/2022 22:45

This is very early days for your child, OP. The transition from primary to secondary is immense. There is so much to learn and adjust to.
The unclear instructions about homework should be followed up by you. I would have thought that all homework would be put up online for all parents to see.
The "wrong" colour shorts is down to you, the parent, and issues about bullying can't be set against such a rule; they are separate.
Bullying is serious; take it up straight away with the relevant teaching staff.

I agree that uniform, and its inevitable tedious enforcement are a complete waste of time, but guess who always says yes when asked? Parents.

bellac11 · 19/10/2022 22:45

ForfuckssakeEXHstopbeingatwat · 19/10/2022 22:40

I think what is often missed in these discussions is that you're not just dealing with one kid taking their blazer off or forgetting their kit or homework or whatever. It's 1000 plus. All in one place. If you don't set high expectations you are v v quickly dealing with an impossible number of issues and any semblance of actually doing what you are meant to do disappears quite quickly. It's all about nuance though. In my school kids have to and do ask to take off their blazer but are never told no, and usually if it's warm or when the first kid asks me I give a general permission for all of them. They may not be allowed water because of tech, or it's a science lab or bloody bottle flipping. Homework deadlines are possibly unclear because the child didn't write it down fully. There will always be arsehole, reactionary teachers on power trips that give this kind of thing a bad name but as a teacher of 20+ years I do generally see the need for it, purely because, as I said at the start, a thousand kids cannot be managed in the same way you would 1 or 2. It has to be universal, but with a layer of humanity and understanding if the teacher has the experience and balls to vary their reaction to the situation...child X practically crying in fright because they've missed a deadline, no detention, child Y giving it attitude and "yeah, forgot miss, soz' then it's a different story and I'd happily defend that. Some teachers find it hard to do that so prefer a zero tolerance approach which inevitably causes problems.

Theoretically though, if you do have every child in a class come in and take their blazer off, so what? How does this affect everything?

pinkberet · 19/10/2022 22:47

In the grand scheme of it all, is it unreasonable for your child to tuck their shirt in and remember their resources and homework?

If there is miscommunication and deadlines are unclear then please express it to the school, begin a dialogue and hopefully procedures will change.

MyPetCrow · 19/10/2022 22:47

I think what is often missed in these discussions is that you're not just dealing with one kid taking their blazer off...
What is needs dealing with when a blazer is taken off.
When I was in high school we had jumpers people took them on or off as they wished, the teachers didn't have to do anything.
Making pupils ask is surely creating something for the teacher to 'deal' with.

Icantremembermyusername · 19/10/2022 22:47

Teacher here! Water bottles are a complete pain in the proverbial. Flipping, shaking, spilling, crinkling the bottle during instructions.... My classes can have a drink before the register and when packing up. Any other time they need to ask to take it out their bag, have a drink and return it to their bag

PomBearWithoutHerOFRS · 19/10/2022 22:48

It's an academy isn't it?

noblegiraffe · 19/10/2022 22:49

3 bloody water spillages in lessons today, and kids 'desperate' for the toilet because they'd just <waves bottle> drank a whole bottle of water.

My school doesn't ban water in lessons but I can see that it would save a lot of hassle if they did.

Silverangels · 19/10/2022 22:51

I remember getting a phone call about dds shoes
i couldn’t make out the problem at first-it turned out the ballet pumps I bought her-the ones all the girls wore,had bows on the toes
they put her in isolation until she got home and I snipped them off
they couldn’t have cared less when she was beaten up or the time she was being bullied but bows on her shoes was the worst crime in the world

noblegiraffe · 19/10/2022 22:52

crinkling the bottle

Oh dear god the worst sound on earth.

And in summer when they bring in a frozen bottle of water and spend the entire lesson trying to get a drink out of it. Crunch.

Catfordthefifth · 19/10/2022 22:53

eddiemairswife · 19/10/2022 22:38

This water business. They aren't going to dry up after a few hours without water. Most people can go all day not having a drink.

But we don't, because we know it's not good for us. But yes, let's encourage our children to do that.

I agree op, it's batshit. It's little wonder so many hate school. I'd hate it too. Literally couldn't think of anything worse, and it doesn't at all reflect any of my jobs. I've never had to ask to take a jumper off, and never even worn a blazer.

Isaidnoalready · 19/10/2022 22:54

Lunchtime detention for coughing they indicated there bag and asked if they could have a drink (in-between coughs) was told no STOP COUGHING

homework is it handed in on Google classroom is it handed in to the teacher is it put in her tray no clue honestly last year for the entire school year they had worksheets to be completed they had to wave them in the air to "show" they had done them then back in their bags a school years worth of homework went in the bin last July bloody pointless waste of time

Catfordthefifth · 19/10/2022 22:54

Icantremembermyusername · 19/10/2022 22:47

Teacher here! Water bottles are a complete pain in the proverbial. Flipping, shaking, spilling, crinkling the bottle during instructions.... My classes can have a drink before the register and when packing up. Any other time they need to ask to take it out their bag, have a drink and return it to their bag

Is that not a massive waste of your time?

noblegiraffe · 19/10/2022 22:56

More of a waste of time than having to deal with the flipping, crinkling, spillages that results from free access?

Maytodecember · 19/10/2022 22:56

Msgrieves · 19/10/2022 22:42

My kids school is like this, more like a prison. I really admire them getting on with it, pretty sure I would have been a school refuser. My school wasn't great but at least you were treated like an individual for the most part.

I think I’d become a school refuser as the teacher! When did UK schools become this awful?

Labraradabrador · 19/10/2022 22:57

MarshaMelrose · 19/10/2022 22:24

Why does she need to drink water during the class? She's not going to get dehydrated for 40 mins. Of course you get warned for forgetting your pe kit. And detentions if it's repeated. We didn't get detentions for undone homework straightaway but if it was a repeated problem we would.

Obviously bullying isn't acceptable but there are rules in secondary school or it would be chaos.

But how is it disruptive? Rules are only meaningful if they serve a bigger purpose- school is about preparing kids for adult life. As an adult, when has restricting water consumption ever been essential for professional success?

Some of the uniform stuff I kind of see big picture wanting to set a baseline for professionalism, but some seem to be too pedantic about application. I will say I can count on one hand the number of times I have worn a blazer professionally, and virtually all of them were for job interviews .

Manchestermummax3 · 19/10/2022 22:58

My sons secondary had what I think is the most ridiculous rule ever!
They MUST wear plain blacks socks (fair enough)... on p.e days they MUST wear white socks.
So he has to change out of his black & into white for a lesson, then change back to black!
Who the fuck has time for that extra laundry when you have a teenager who stuffs most of the dirty ones down the side of his bed never to be seen again!

fUNNYfACE36 · 19/10/2022 22:58

When I was at school people managed with a drink at break and lunchtime perfectly well

MongoOnlyPawnInGameOfLife · 19/10/2022 23:00

Maytodecember · 19/10/2022 22:56

I think I’d become a school refuser as the teacher! When did UK schools become this awful?

Show quote history

when they stopped being about education and became more childcare, mixed with preparing kids for the modern workplace by beating any sense of individuality, free thinking or variance from the norm out of them (that stuff is for their betters at Eton, Harrow and the like).

Original poster
craxyrulebraker · 19/10/2022 23:01

😂I take the comments about water bottles onboard. It must be really irritating.

My DS has SEN and is being given little to no support from the school. And to be honest him having to deal with these rules and getting stressed about this minutia is a real distraction for him and making me see red. He got a warning because his shorts were 'too baggy' and when it was hot in September he was in a class where no-one was allowed to take their blazer off despite them asking.
The homework was set online so he uploaded the work on-line and was threatened with detention because it wasn't handed in on paper (it wasn't specified what they had to do). For a child with SEN who is struggling anyway with no support these things really don't help.

OP posts:
Icantremembermyusername · 19/10/2022 23:03

@noblegiraffe thank you for validating my feelings, lol! The only thing worse than the sound of a bottle being repeatedly crinkled is the sight of a KS3 pupil sucking the drink out with the lid partially open. #unlessyouhaveseenitinthefleshyouhavenoidea.
Some rules are daft, most have a reason, even if you can't see it, OP. Sorry your DC is having a tough time.