To ask why you gave DC his last name?

[Tsort]

If you kept your name/aren’t married, but gave DC their father’s last name (as opposed to double barrelling or giving them you own), may I ask why?

Where are you and what did they say? Sharp comments? Who on Earth thinks they are entitled to an opinion re what you’re called?!

I had exactly one comment about not changing my name, from my cousin, and I told him to mind his own sexist business. I can’t think of anything else.

Let's see... we had the people who thought it was funny to comment to me that they knew I didn't want to be Mrs DH Name so they were going to use it just to irritate me. Then the people who responded to a post I put on facebook alerting them that I wasn't taking DH Name who had quite a lot to say about why wouldn't I want to and, my personal favourite, how does DH feel about it? (DH felt very strongly it had nothing to do with him and was barely polite in responding to that Facebook post). Then there was the man in my office who told me he thought it was "sad" that I didn't want to share DH's name. The lady at the bank who told me that she "had" to change my name on our joint bank account as "it's the law".

A LARGE number of people who have told me some version of, "it's too complicated to remember both you and DH's name" or "It's too long to write both your names on the card so we'll just use DH's name" (Funny, this was't a problem before we were married. Also, I have one friend who says this but then just addresses stuff to me instead!)

DH has had a number of friends attempt to commiserate with him because I wouldn't take his name (in the months after the wedding).

The PTA who used my name and DH's surname when listing me on something, notwithstanding that my name is on my facebook, my email and my WhatsApp - all avenues through which they had communicated with me. (admittedly, this doesn't count in the 'people who have commented' section really, but I add it here on the basis that it DOES fit in the 'people who just can't get their head around me not changing my name').

These are just the examples I can think of off the top of my head. I am sure there are more. The sharp comments were me responding, and sometimes DH, - we lost patience pretty quickly.

I'm not married (and even if I was I wouldn't change my name; even in my parents generation in our family the women kept their names- and I actually wish I had my mothers' to keep that matrilienal line).

So it's purely about the kids, who very much have my name. Was it an explicitly feminist choice? Yes. Does it mean you're a bad feminist if you don't? No. But it is good to recognise how culture and patriarchy constrain and shape our decision-making.

I do think there will be some variation depending on where you live in how surprising people think this is. As others on the thread have pointed out, naming traditions are different in different communities/countries- somewhere very multicultural things stand out less. Arab women, for example, do not take their husband's name (and the law is changing quite fast in some countries in the region to allow children to also take their mother's name). Spanish surnames are a combination of names from both sides.

It would be particularly rude to ask, so I'm sad for some posters that others think it's any of their business (and still seem to be living in 1930).

I had exactly one comment about not changing my name, from my cousin, and I told him to mind his own sexist business. I can’t think of anything else

most of dh’s relatives refuse to accept I have kept my own name and address all Christmas cards to “mr and Mrs dh’s name”

what they are even more resistant to is the fact I don’t want to be known as “Mrs”. This is far from unusual- lots of long threads here from women who think “Mrs” confers a status on them as a married women, and women using Dr somehow have ideas above their station. We should be recognised for our marital achievement and not our academic ones.

How incredibly frustrating!

I’m pretty…confrontational, I suppose? Whatever the opposite of non-confrontational is. This is disrespect, and I wouldn’t tolerate it. You will address me correctly or you will not address me at all.

However, it really doesn’t come up in my life. When we got married, work asked if I wanted my name/email changed, but that’s it.

I also don’t think I know anyone under 50 who uses or is called ‘Mrs’. Fully aware that this isn’t the case for much of the country, but DH and I are pretty standard in our specific demographic, so there’s not a lot of friction. MN is very much a window into another world for me, in many respects.

We all have the same name. It was important to me that we all do, because to me that's part of being a family. I like being 'The Smiths*'. I didn't care about giving up my name and my husband did. It didn't feel patriarchal as it was all of my own free will, no pressure. Women's rights are about choice, not one way of doing things.

To me, double barrelled surnames are unnecessarily long and convoluted. Mine and my husband's would have been 5 syllables long. It's also kicking the can down the road. When your child has a child, which names do they pass on and which do they drop? Do they combine to give a quadruple barrelled name? Does the next generation go for eight?

I didn't want my kids to have my stepdads name.

Because he wanted them to have his name and it wasn’t the ditch I wanted to die in.

I didn't care about giving up my name and my husband did. It didn't feel patriarchal as it was all of my own free will, no pressure. Women's rights are about choice, not one way of doing things

thing is it’s not a completely free choice is it? If it were we’d see 50% of men giving up their names alongside women. Yet it’s nearly exclusively always women who make this “choice”.

women are raised knowing that society’s expectation is marriage and children, and they will change their names. It’s all they ever know, their mums did it, their friends mums did it. Most of us have practised writing Mrs boy crush throughout secondary school. The importance of taking someone else’s name is subconscious.

conversely, men know they will go through life with one name, one title. They know society won’t judge them for being married or not, and that it’s even irrelevant in their lives. Compared to women who announce whether they are married when simply giving their name.

so is it any surprise that it’s always women who are less attached to their surname than men?

I didn't care about giving up my name and my husband did.

Why do you think that is, though? It’s been discussed throughout the thread, but why do you think so many women don’t care about giving up their name and so many men to? Patriarchy. You can make any choices you wish, but you should acknowledge that said choices do not exist in a vacuum.

It's also kicking the can down the road. When your child has a child, which names do they pass on and which do they drop? Do they combine to give a quadruple barrelled name? Does the next generation go for eight?

Two points, here. Is adhering to patrilineal naming conventions not just kicking the can down the road for your daughter(s)? The expectation that they will at some point change their names?

Secondly, quite a lot of the world has double barrelled names for thousands of years. Nobody is right barrelled yet. People keep their birth names for their entire lives and pass on one of their last names to their kids. So, Jane Smith Jones and Tim Green Brown would have kids with the last names ‘Smith Green’ or ‘Jones Brown’, depending on which name their parents wanted to pass down.

To me, double barrelled surnames are unnecessarily long and convoluted. Mine and my husband's would have been 5 syllables long. It's also kicking the can down the road. When your child has a child, which names do they pass on and which do they drop? Do they combine to give a quadruple barrelled name? Does the next generation go for eight?

ask the Spanish?

they seem to have managed well enough with the double barrel method of naming 🤷‍♀️

the UK way isn’t the only way to do things.

Yes but the Spaniards have beautiful musical surnames. Whitehead-Trott just doesn’t have the same ring to it.

I think it would be really interesting to scratch beneath the surface, beyond the ‘my name was awkward’, ‘I just wasn’t bothered but DH was’…
They aren’t really the real reason, otherwise we would have 50/50, but there are patriarchal and with that psychological reasons too aren’t there?

Wanting to feel attached, part of a team, part of a family. And as it’s the male name, wanting to feel attached or part of them, to relinquish a bit of responsibility to the man? I’m not being provocative, I can see the attraction in a way. I’ve struggled holding everything together for years by myself, single parent, the earner, the main parent, everything. Sometimes that fantasy of a childhood of a Prince who just takes care of everything… it’s quite pervasive still in society look at ‘Pretty Woman’ etc films.

And perhaps that is why it is still important, as divorce rates are high, men aren’t necessarily staying for their kids, it’s a protective factor? (and I know there are women who leave etc, but on the whole women are left with the kids).

Also, is it a way to say, look I want you the man to stick around for these kids. I the woman is usually the main carer, we are pregnant and give birth, so I want you to feel really connected too through them having your name.

My DH was married before and they all took his name, including his wife. His wife is still very attached to the name and years after divorce hasn’t changed it. She’s mentioned to me a few times that she is Ms DH, once when we were at a family gathering and someone called me and DH ‘Mr and Mrs DH’ (I took no offence) but Ex overheard and took great offense. At first I found it quite awkward but sometimes I now think, well it was simpler for his Ex, and made DH feel strongly that he had a role. Our names are quite meaningful I guess.

I wonder if there is any interesting research out there about those deeper psychological meanings?

There’s no deeper psychological meaning with mine, it doesn’t sound very nice and I constantly get asked how it’s spelt. DH’s just sounds nicer, that was it 🤷🏼‍♀️ no patriarchy in this house, he does all nappy changes when I breastfeed, we’re taking shared parental leave and on a balance he probably does more of the hands on childcare than I do.

At the time, it mattered a lot more to DS's father than it did to me. Then after a year of having a different name to my son I couldn't stand it anymore and changed MY name to match my sons surname. Two years after that, his dad and I split up and now I'm stuck with my exes name because I don't want a different name to my son and would need XPs permission to change it, which there is no way in hell he would do.

Little lad is 7 now, so have learned to live with it.

In Spanish culture the grandmother's surname is dropped and the grandfather's name is ultimately passed on. How is that less sexist? By what method are you supposed to choose which of your two double barrelled names to pass on? You're right back to square one.

Because I really hate my surname!

I appreciate my feelings didn't develop in a vacuum, but should I have pushed for us all to have my surname even though I literally didn't care? How bizarre would that be.

See above, how do you make the decision which of your surnames to pass on? You're back at having to make a decision about whose surname gets to live on...

I get what you mean. If there were any such research, it would make fascinating reading. I’ll see what I can dig up.

Cos my maiden name is shit!! Couldn't wait to get rid of it and wouldn't want to inflict it on a small child.

Nope. You can choose to pass on either last name from either parent. So not sexist at all.

And, again, why do you think the choice of which of their two names to pass on is somehow problematic for kids, but you’re fine with female children not passing on their last name at all?

I didn’t say you should have pushed for anything. I asked you why, in your opinion, your husband cared and you didn’t and whether you recognised the fact that people’s feelings/attachment to their last names is often so gendered is essentially patriarchy in action.

And, again, is adhering to patrilineal naming conventions not just kicking the can down the road for your daughter(s)? The expectation that they will at some point change their names? Why do you think the choice of which of their two names to pass on is somehow problematic for kids, but you’re fine with female children ultimately not passing on their last name at all? I’m afraid I’m not following your logic.

Has anyone ever heard of a man who really hates his name/ prefers his wife’s name/ doesn’t want to be reminded of his father and so chooses not to pass on his name to his children?

I know a few from a support group (we all had abusive parents).

Of the 12 only 1 gave their children their surname. Most gave their partners names, including at least 4 guys, and a few picked completely new family names.