MIL dropping hints about moving in.

[HappyDays40]

I have a lovely but very elderly MIL who at 94 lives independently and has friends who come and visit her that live on the street. We do shopping appointments etc and visits each week she is about 20 miles away. Sometimes when she isn't feeling too good she stays for a few days but is always glad to get back home as we have a noisy 6 year old who she loves but it can understandably get too much.
She told me today she is having the house valued so she can "move in with family ".......I think she means us considering there is nobody else:)
She is unsteady on her feet, can't do stairs but her house is adapted, she is familiar with it. Wherever she moves to would need some adaptations. When she does stay its very hard, we have a small dog who gets under her feet so is a falls risk, we have to move our work ( both full time) to make sure we are home to help her too the loo, get her drinks etc. She is no problem just sits in her chair , watches telly and drinks tea. But it isn't possible to work from home all the time our jobs involve some time out of the house!
Her friends pop over and wouldn't be able to do that if she were here.
We go away, do festivals and are not home much at weekends especially in the summer, she won't have carers or respite care.
I don't want her to move in permanently as it cannot possibly work logistically. She is welcome to stop over but it stops our routines an restricts us to the house. Not sure how we would manage to work, care for her full time and continue any quality of life for our son. Any suggestions how to address this without hurting her feelings are welcome.

But she might not realise that it won't be enough if she hasn't been keeping up with house prices.

And she has probably forgotten that you both need to work - and that what that entails because it will have been years ago since she worked. I know my late Dad certainly thought my brother or I could drop everything when he needed us to!!

Sounds like she would still need carers to come in even if she did move in with you - and thats a huge disruption for you.

I would tell her gently that she is being selfish. That you have your own lives and that you would never expect to be a burden on your children. And that back then women had very little rights and were expected to put themselves last to look after others, that times have changed and you feel she is being selfish and unfair.

Her son needs to be the one telling her this.

At least she has now actually asked you instead of assuming, so you can all put your cards on the table and have a practical discussion. You & DH are not in a position to be a full-time carer for her so where does she suggest she gets the care she needs?

I sound harsh, in reality I get that this is a distressing situation for anyone - realising you need to rely on others. Show sympathy but be firm that you don't have the house, the skills, the money or the free time!

Although she is managing independently today, I have seen that stage lost overnight (elderly neighbours) by something quite small. And when the Last Straw happens, its the worst possible moment to be making new plans, looking for another home etc.

This stage IS her window of opportunity to forward-manage the last stage of her life in the best possible way. Don't miss it, and don't delay.

It happens;my grandparents are 82 and 77;my FIL is 81 and my late MIL would have been 73.

Does she have full time care now? I don’t think anyone is being judgy about the ages, it’s just very unusual for a 90+ person to have such a young grandchild. My mum died aged 85 and her youngest grandchild was 22. Her eldest great grandchild was 10.

Hi OP. You sound like a lovely, caring family but your MIL should not expect you to look after her. I know as my MIL moved in with us recently due to a fall. It will be hard work especially working full time and having a young child.

For me, it happened gradually. My FIL died 25 years ago so when we decided to move from the suburbs to the country 12 years ago, we asked if she would like to move with us. Luckily we found two homes next door to each other and it worked very well. 1 year into the move, my MIL became seriously ill and with 3 Dc's under the age of 5 it was unbearably hard especially with a baby who only slept 2 or 3 hours a night. Also she had 2 little dogs who needed to be cared for. I was looking after her until she was fit to live next door again which she did after 6 months and she recovered and was back on her feet again. Everything was going well but 3 years ago she was diagnosed with dementia. She is fine, just forgetful but stopped looking after herself, cooking etc. Myself and DH have stepped in and literally looking after her in her own home. I am.a carer so I cut my hours to care for my MIL. We do everything for her and when we go away we had carers go in to sort out meals, pills and showering.
When she had a fall while we were away we decided it would be for the best for her to live with us. We have the room and we have a bedroom on the ground floor, bathroom so no stairs. My Dc's are all older and they are good company plus they are happy for Nan to live with us. I have given up my work which I decided I am happy to do but obviously it is all down to me as my DH is working more hours. It works for us for now. The only thing I would say, is she is incontinent and most of the time it is fine but when she does have an accident I will try and make sure the children don't see it. It isn't nice for them or her.
For me, it didn't happen all of a sudden and wasn't a shock when she finally moved into our home..she is a lovely, easy lady but my situation is different from your situation. You both work full time, have a small Dc and it is hard work at times. You should not feel guilty as all if you decide you can't have your MIL living with you. Have you any family to help? My DH has a DS but she doesn't help and it has always been that way. she has her career, no Dc's but lived a long way from us. It would be nice to have extra help but then we work as a team. I have said, if thing changed with the dementia then we would have to look into a care home but at the moment it is working out well.

The only thing that I feel is my parents are both poorly. They have been for a long time but live 2 hours away from me. It has damage my relationship with my DM as I think she feels I should be caring for them. I do always see them and help out when i can but my DS and DB are very hands on with my parents and know I have alot going on with my MIL. My parents are younger, 70 and my MIL is 89.

I hope you come up with an arrangement which works for you all. Take care.

No they won't. Or at last they won't fund 4x a day care if the person needing help has more than £23k

If the person has their own home but less that £23k* in liquid funds, the council will create a debt to be repaid from their estate when they die.

We've been through this with both my mum and my MIL.

*this amount is from memory. It could be a few thousand more, but it's definitely well under £30k

Put her in a home.

Invite her to stay for a month and she'll realise these problems for herself. Might open her eyes to the issues. Also maybe go up more than once a week plus make a rota for visits with others to spread it out but unfortunately adaptations have to be made x

Does she have full time care now? I don’t think anyone is being judgy about the ages, it’s just very unusual for a 90+ person to have such a young grandchild. My mum died aged 85 and her youngest grandchild was 22. Her eldest great grandchild was 10.

I thought that at first until I realised my GM would have been 92 when I was 6 had she still been alive. She was 40 when dad was born and dad was 45 when I was born, so not total outliers! The prince Philip and viscount Severn example is similar. Dad was the youngest of a largish family who went on to marry later in life.

My father is over a decade older than op’s

He’s over 104? Wow.

It’s £24,250 currently reducing to £14,250

Could she afford to buy an over 60’s flat that has a common social area and a warden? They often have a guest room available for a small nightly fee.
DH’s DGM is a similar age and lived happily in hers for 10 years before she had a fall. She was allowed to pay for carers to come in.

Very rarely, and it's not somewhere I think many would rush to less than a day after finding out about their mum's wishes.

I certainly wouldn't risk to any judgement of a male partner who didn't post here! Hopefully he has his own place, real life or online, to talk about this.

I think your starting point is that she cannot live with you, for many reasons. Accommodation is rented and it’s not allowed, it’s not a suitable environment, you have work commitments so can’t give her the same level of care as the professionals…

Therefore let’s look at the choices (and do position it as a choice).

She stays at home with carers coming in.
She moves to suitable accommodation with care.

We overcame the reticence about care homes by using one for a week’s respite care, when an elderly relative living with my MIL had to have someone look after her when MIL was on holiday. I think there was a perception of it being very institutional like hospitals in the 40’s as that’s all they had to compare it with and visualise.

Elderly relative loved it, it was different from how they imagined it and they were delighted by the company to talk to there, and the fact that we made a concerted effort to visit 3 times a week between us. That tapered down to once a week after they had settled better. They were happy there for 3 years before they died. The home were really supportive too, especially when acute health issues happened.

Could this approach help you? I would be very clear about them not being able to move in with you. Have phrases ready to counter every subtle hint or discussion about it. Then bring up the alternative options. Sell them to her as getting a better outcome, like having professional support and care, etc.

Remember that carers go home after their shift and have a life. You would be on duty 24/7. Carers coming in great in principle, but so often they don't turn up or every day different ones so you spend all your life showing them where everything is etc.

My mum when she was younger was horrified at the thought of care homes, but when it came to it, we found one close to us, and she was very happy. We could pop in for short periods, she could come to lunch with us or a day out and had lots of friends to talk to when she went back.
Don't be blackmailed into saying yes. Your life will be miserable. Make it completely clear now that it can't happen and let her be furious. When she calms down, help her make her plans.

My DH's nan wanted to stay in her home (preferably with MIL moving in, obviously didn't think of her sons being able to do this) to the end of her days. However, MIL was still working and had her own home. She couldn't afford to give up work (and her house) to look after her. She did help along with carers, but as time went on and after many hospital visits after falls etc, it was decided that nan needed to go into a home, at least for respite. She wasn't happy about the thought of it but once there she thrived, she had company when she wanted it and her own room when she wanted to be by herself. They laid on activities, the bathrooms were set up correctly, which hadn't been possible in her home. I think she wished she had done it sooner.

I love the blase way that "get carers in" is bandied around. Most often than not, they don't turn up or the relative won't let them do anything and insists they don't need help. And that's if your LA will even be able to provide a package. My Dad is terminally ill with cancer and we can't get help in for him for love nor money. If there are family, they don't want to know.

Did your DH not see this coming?

What provision did he and his mother make for her old age? What conversations did they have?

TBH, if I live to see 94 the wrench away from my home would be awful. Going from my home to my DS/DIL’s house would be enough, even if I had a dog and child to contented with. But I’d consider them both a price worth paying and of course (hopefully!) I’d love my DGS.

The thought of being farmed into a care home when I don’t need nursing would fill me with horror.

I don’t think that making adaptations (non-permanent) in your home is that big a deal. You don’t have to curtail your weekends etc. She manages alone right now, she can manage for a few nights here and there. Same as during the work day. She can live alone in her house. Once your dining room is adapted to her, she can live alone there.

Comparing the upheaval to you of upsetting your home furniture and it being a bit of a squeeze for a few years but having her surrounded by loving family till the end, versus the upheaval of putting a 94yo lone woman in a care home to be visited when you can - well, there’s no comparison. I’m also a firm believer in inter-generational living. It’s good for young children to be around the elderly.

I just don’t think I could do it. Like babies and toddlers, older people need not much: food, water, shelter, love. Life going on around them. It’s not much to ask.

Caveat to all of the above is that she lives by your rules. Obviously you adapt to suit her physical restrictions, but what you say goes. You’re in charge. And, the big caveat to all of this is whether there’s a bathroom downstairs or whether your friend would agree to a stairlift being installed (to be removed before you leave your tenancy).

Oh gosh OP please call her back and reassure her. She must be feeling so alone.

She was born around 1928? Situations like this were handled very differently back then and care homes were considered almost akin to the poor house/asylum.

My own Nan felt this way.

It must be incredibly difficult for her, not only having to deal with that but her own mortality and loss of independence.

A sad situation all round, and I say this as full time carer for my own severely disabled DS17.

@Suemademedoit what about adaptions to bathrooms, toilet etc. What happens if OP doesn't have a downstairs loo with enough room to help an elderly lady on and off the toilet, clear up accidents etc. This isn't their home remember, the MIL is currently not a tenant.

If you convert a downstairs room for her but OP and her DH are out working all day, what company is the MIL getting? She would get more company in a home. If the home is near where she currently lives, her friends would still be able to visit and so would OP and her DH.

At 94 she finds the 6yo too much in large doses, so did my nan. We used to visit my parents the same time my nan was visiting for Sunday lunch, but after a while we realised although she loved seeing our DC they were too much for her for a whole day. So we used to visit her in the home at other times, so she could still see her great grandchildren but in small doses which she could cope with.

She’s 94 and as the OP said, little trouble.

I take a totally different view, as hard as I may find it I would do it, but I would insist on carers.

There are a lot of really selfish people on here - none of us wants to be a burden but the reality is many of us will be. That’s old age