MIL dropping hints about moving in.

[HappyDays40]

I have a lovely but very elderly MIL who at 94 lives independently and has friends who come and visit her that live on the street. We do shopping appointments etc and visits each week she is about 20 miles away. Sometimes when she isn't feeling too good she stays for a few days but is always glad to get back home as we have a noisy 6 year old who she loves but it can understandably get too much.
She told me today she is having the house valued so she can "move in with family ".......I think she means us considering there is nobody else:)
She is unsteady on her feet, can't do stairs but her house is adapted, she is familiar with it. Wherever she moves to would need some adaptations. When she does stay its very hard, we have a small dog who gets under her feet so is a falls risk, we have to move our work ( both full time) to make sure we are home to help her too the loo, get her drinks etc. She is no problem just sits in her chair , watches telly and drinks tea. But it isn't possible to work from home all the time our jobs involve some time out of the house!
Her friends pop over and wouldn't be able to do that if she were here.
We go away, do festivals and are not home much at weekends especially in the summer, she won't have carers or respite care.
I don't want her to move in permanently as it cannot possibly work logistically. She is welcome to stop over but it stops our routines an restricts us to the house. Not sure how we would manage to work, care for her full time and continue any quality of life for our son. Any suggestions how to address this without hurting her feelings are welcome.

You can't have the conversation without hurting her feelings I'm afraid. The sooner you say it, the better.

Start looking at sheltered accommodation near her, and arrange to view it together. Don't let this fester and ignore the posters who seem to think this would be a doddle and no real trouble at all.

Sheltered accommodation would be perfect for her if you can persuade her. She won't be lonely - there's often a communal lounge area downstairs where the residents sit and chat. She'll have a lot more company than with you, as you both work full time outside the house.

To all the "lovely" judging posters on here about the ages. My dad is 91 and I have a 4 year old. He had me at 54, and now relies on me for his care. I'm not going to cast him off because he had me "too old" for the approval of some mumsnetters 🙄 He was an amazing dad for many years. But in relation to the OPs dilemma... I love him but no way will he ever be moving in with us!

Because men use the site too!

I grew up living with my grandmother from 7, when she had a stroke, so I probably have a very different view of this than most. We cared for her for years and its had a profound impact on me, all positive. What does your DH say?

@WahineToa what impact did it have on your mum? Who did the caring?

I remember family Christmases when I was a young child with great fondness. My parents always hosted. Only now when older do I realise how stressful they were for my mum dealing with everything including demanding elderly relatives. Certainly wasn’t much fun for her at times.

I would have thought that her income from selling the house would pay for any care you might need if she were to live with you? Would that be an idea?

I read the full thread but OP I couldn’t see exactly why your MIL wants to move in with you and make this change. Is that a place to start the discussion? Does she want practical help? To spend more time with you? Fearful about being alone at night? Doesn’t want to manage her own home? She’s come up with this solution, but it’s not clear which (maybe all?) of these are problems for her - and why she’s decided on this as the answer, and what the other options are.

@Judijudi It's not unthinkable that she could be around for another ten years. OP's son is 6, that's the rest of his childhood. It's not 'very sad', it's impractical and unwise for the reasons OP has given.

what impact did it have on your mum? Who did the caring?

It was my mums choice, we’re Maori so it’s a lot more common. We all did the caring. I had brothers who did the lifting initially when she could barely move. My Mum did most of it. Some family had days they helped but not regularly and every 2 months she went into the local rest home for 2 weeks to give us all a break, but us kids visited her every day after school and did homework while with her and gave her dinner etc My Mother went on to run a rest home and similar work managing care for elderly. She had no qualifications and no work experience before caring for Nan, it turned into a good career for her. I have a completely different view to most. My fathers side also did similar things with older family, he grew up with two older Uncles with disabilities living with him and his sisters lived with his Mum as well.

I was the child in this situation. She lived with my parents from about three years into their marriage, I looked my family up on the 1939 register and there she was, listed as resident with my parents and my two older siblings, I was born in 1948. (I’m into Ancestry and family history)
My dad told me she got evicted for not paying her rent so my dad, her son in law, said he wouldn’t see her on streets. She was always there, right from the day I was born so I didn’t know any different but it might have been a different story had she come to live with us at your sons age.
Like a previous poster mentioned, it was the norm for a grandparent to be taken in by the family, two bed terraced house with parents three children and granny.
As I grew up I saw the toll it took on my mum, we did get a bigger house but it was still hard. So much so mum vowed she’d never ‘burden’ herself on any of us, she’d often say “but don’t put me in a home, get people in”.
I was 11 when granny died, My mum and dad got their lives back and began to enjoy life and I got a bedroom all to myself.
However, times have changed since then, my mum was a stay at home mum so on hand if granny needed help, you work full time.
OP, you and dh need to have the conversation with her. Your in rented accommodation, it can’t be adapted, what if the land lady wants her house back for whatever reason,
Carers, Cleaners etc. My dh and his sister took the decision out of FILs hands over this, FIL was knackered looking after MIL, the house was a tip, so a cleaner was employed, he wasn’t happy at first but after two weeks they were the best thing since sliced bread. Same with carers, only it was the gp who set the ball rolling here.

I would have thought that her income from selling the house would pay for any care you might need if she were to live with you? Would that be an idea?

This would be my suggestion, a carer daily would make it possible. She is not going to bs around much longer.

I agree you need to gently ask what the reason is that she wants to change, then find a way to meet her needs that doesn't involve her moving in.

People often have a negative idea of care homes/sheltered flats/retirement communities etc - I think it can be a pleasant surprise to see it's just less hassle than your own home, ready made community and less worry about what would happen if you had a fall or need more care.

You make a good point about the opposite scenario to the ops @TheFeistyFeminist. My DH and I are both aged 70 now and my mother is 91. We have already in our retirement been a good support to dmil who has now died. We were not the main support but we did hospital appointments, garden ect. Visited every week befor she went into a home and 3 times a week once she did go into care. During this time I was also visiting, shopping for, attending hospital appointments for my own mother then in her 80s. During that time she had two big operations so I found myself doing more. In my 30s my dad got cancer so I spent a lot of time in support while working and with a school age child. Mother at present is an independent 92 year old but getting frailer. She comes to us for Sunday lunch, I get her shopping, advise on various admin, go to all hospital appointments. Not a problem. I love her and want to do my bit. But .. what about the next stage???? She is always telling me she would rather get the vet in and be PTS rather than go in a care home as no doctor would do that for her. This is all said in a jokey way, but I am being sent a clear message. At present she has a cleaner, gardener which suffice but when I mention carers 'later on' this is pushed aside. She knows several people who say they 'do nothing ' so where does this leave me ....with some difficult conversations I'm afraid. If the extra care is needed from say 93 ...I will be 72. 8 years until I am 80. Eight years to hopefully enjoy a bit of our time, having holidays, seeing the odd show, having a break with DD who has teens and a full time job. If I gave up those years to full time caring I would then be reaching the age of slowing down, not going abroad ext myself. These are precious years with my DH, long worked and planned for. I have always done my bit, taken often more than my share of the load and will continue to do that. my visits, taking her out, hospital stuff ect will increase. But full time care in my home ...not an option. I can see I have some awkward conversations coming but DM is a feisty strong minded old lady and the dynamic in my home would change overnight and impact on the relationship with my DH so it's a no from me. It is very hard whatever the age gap is between parents and children

So how is she managing now if she needs help going to the toilet or making food?

My grandparent still lives alone (and they are older than your MIL) but they are mobile and can do a lot of their own personal care. They have careers to help get washed and dressed each day but at a pinch they could it themselves.

I would get your husband to have an honest conversation with her and to include your stated points. Your points are very valid, house isn’t safe for her without modifications, 6 year old getting too much, unable to work from home full time to care for her etc. We had a similar situation with my grandmother and unfortunately had to put her in a care home but she ended up loving it as she had 24/7 support and the social aspect of the planned activities and still lots of visits from family.

But it's always the women, as a rule, who are expected to 'be kind', notwithstanding the kindness is detrimental to their interests. Worse, in this instance it would also be detrimental to the interests of her child.

You can't work full-time, assume the care of a 6-year-old even - with the full cooperation and participation of the coparent - AND take on all the practicalities and emotional labour of full-time care (and it will be full time) of a dependent adult, who is likely to become increasingly more dependent with time. And invariably, this care does fall to the woman; the very fact that it's OP MiL has raised this with rather than her own son is indicative of who she expects will provide the care. Have those who are recommending this course ever actually tried it? This would be too much for anyone.

Easy to recommend kind acts on behalf of another person and keep up the pressure on women to be model female citizens of care and kindness. Far less easy to deliver; and yes, I have assumed care of first my terminally ill mother and then my grandfather, who had dementia, low blood pressure and could fall at a moment's notice. I was not competent, physically or otherwise, to cope with this: anything other than full-time professional care would have been doing him a grave disservice and been actually dangerous.

It's a BIG ask. OP is right not to consider it, and I hope, OP, you and your DH find a way to navigate this hard situation as painlessly as possible.

Is there any sheltered housing in your/her area?

Would she get someone to live in? A lodger? Perhaps a younger friend who is alone and could be there for companionship and to keep an eye on her? I have an elderly friend who has an arrangement like this. The companion works part time, so they're not under each others' feet all day, and my friend has lots of visitors.

@Judijudi how do you think that would work with two full time workers and a 6 year old child. She is fit for her age and could live more years. She needs someone in the house at all times to assist her that's not logistically possible with needing to take our son to school and generally enable him to have a life.
To the people tying to work out the missing layer, there isn't one you are being judge and its not relevant.

My Dad, 89, had carers 4 times a day until February - when after a series of falls in the night (which required emergency service call outs to get him up off the floor, then hospital) he went into a care home.

He's now doubly incontinent and needs specialist nursing care as he has vascular dementia. I tell you this because saying 'have a carer in' doesn't help as a person becomes in need of constant supervision and care.

To those declaring the OP should move the MiL in - as well as accessible bathrooms and other adaptations that in this case (a rented house and we've no idea even of that house's suitability for an increasingly elderly person) - caring for an elderly person is a 24 hour job.

There is also no additional room for any live in care. It's a three bed property:)

@VickyEadieofThigh I’m aware of what is sometimes required, as I said I lived with my elderly grandparent. The OPs MIL doesn’t have the needs your father does though.

She needs someone in the house at all times to assist her

Does she currently have that?

@caroleanboneparte my husband I discuss these things together we sort of take joint responsibility to for anything all of our parents need he is just as much a part of his as I aits not Al being heaped on me. My husbands sister died two years ago and his brother is not in good health. She has two grandchildren other than our son but they are in Oz. So really just me and my husband, my mum and dad also help as they have there own lovely relationship but my mum and dad recently retired plus it's not their responsibility.
So hard :)