MIL dropping hints about moving in.

[HappyDays40]

I have a lovely but very elderly MIL who at 94 lives independently and has friends who come and visit her that live on the street. We do shopping appointments etc and visits each week she is about 20 miles away. Sometimes when she isn't feeling too good she stays for a few days but is always glad to get back home as we have a noisy 6 year old who she loves but it can understandably get too much.
She told me today she is having the house valued so she can "move in with family ".......I think she means us considering there is nobody else:)
She is unsteady on her feet, can't do stairs but her house is adapted, she is familiar with it. Wherever she moves to would need some adaptations. When she does stay its very hard, we have a small dog who gets under her feet so is a falls risk, we have to move our work ( both full time) to make sure we are home to help her too the loo, get her drinks etc. She is no problem just sits in her chair , watches telly and drinks tea. But it isn't possible to work from home all the time our jobs involve some time out of the house!
Her friends pop over and wouldn't be able to do that if she were here.
We go away, do festivals and are not home much at weekends especially in the summer, she won't have carers or respite care.
I don't want her to move in permanently as it cannot possibly work logistically. She is welcome to stop over but it stops our routines an restricts us to the house. Not sure how we would manage to work, care for her full time and continue any quality of life for our son. Any suggestions how to address this without hurting her feelings are welcome.

The fear of a “Home” stems from the old Workhouses. It did for my mother and her siblings anyway. They were old enough to know of them, the older siblings for sure.
Sheltered accommodation could work for ops mother in law.
OP, does MIL receive Attendance Allowance?

@Suemademedoit there is a kitchen and living/ dining room no ground floor toilet so we would lose any family room altogether as she can't do stairs. Stairlift isn't an option as my friend doesn't want any adaptations it'll ruin the carpet. I reality it's fine for a few days but not possible for longer term. My friend doesnmind her staying nor would she mind her living here in principle but she can't get upstairs nor would the friends that visit he daily be able to get here.

The lack of a downstairs toilet + inability to climb stairs pits an end to her living with you.

But, sorry to say it, this makes your DH absolutely wicked imo. Did he not spare a thought for his mother in her 80s and 90s and organise with her what would happen to her when this time came? I have greater sympathy for an elderly woman who can’t face impending disability or do the research, than your DH who is much more competent. He has only one dependent. Why on earth hasn’t he talked to his mum about this? What steps is he putting in place? What does he think should happen to his mum?

It's not fair on the family to be confined to their bedrooms or the kitchen because mil is living in the only communal space.
It's very easy for strangers to tell the OP to do this but they aren't living her life.
She doesn't want to be mil's carer. And that's her right. We owe our parents love and help (assuming they have been loving parents) but we don't owe it to them to give up our homes, family life with our own children, our careers etc.
Even as a sahm I wouldn't be able to live with my mil. My personality is not cut out for being a carer. My marriage wouldn't survive it. Women aren't wrong because they don't want to sacrifice their lives to looking after someone else!

It really isn't that unusual. Even without considering second families, you just need two consecutive generations that had children in their forties. MIL didn't start her family until her early forties and our youngest was born when I was 39 (DH's sister and BIL were similar ages when starting a family), so when MIL turned 90 most of her grandchildren were still at primary school. It's more usual these days to delay "settling down", unlike in the 70s when my older sister was married with three DCs by the age of 25.

I wouldn’t suggest that adult children become carers 24/7 - how would that even work with having childcare and earning responsibilities, let alone the mental strain? But this isn’t the OP’s situation AT ALL

This is the ops situation. Both her and her dh work and they have a child. They are already making huge changes to their daily lives when her mil comes to stay, which I think is why mil thinks she can just come and live with them. She thinks this is their normal day to day life.
Could your mil move closer to you op? I can't remember if that has been mentioned. Could you or your dh have a look and see if there is anything she could afford that would be suitable close by?

It doesn’t sound like MIL needs 24/7 caring is what I’m saying. Not that OP and her DH don’t have jobs and a DC. Her first post said they do.

If she would need help getting upstairs to the toilet, which is going to be the case at least during the day as she isn't bedbound, it's not going to be far off.

Just thinking that I’d rather get divorced than have my MIL stay longer than 2 nights a month!!

I’ll be doing precisely zero elder care in future. Which is precisely how much help we got from either set of parents when we had DC!! Yes, I’m still bitter 😂 But they did enjoy their 60s and now 70s. Lots of retreats and cruises etc. So I think that’s a great example of how I’ll be spending my retirement. Actually, I’m going to hopefully help look after future grandchildren 😊

It's all very well saying didn't the DH speak to his mum before about what is going to happen when she gets older. It has already been said on here by some posters, many parents say they don't want to be a burden on their children and if necessary they will get carers or go into a home. Then when reality starts to bite they change their mind, as understandably, that huge change can seem quite daunting/frightening.

When DF died we helped DM move closer to us, she went into a retirement flat. She had doubts and concerns, but accepted it was the best thing for all of us. Luckily, it has worked out well. DF was terribly ill for a number of years before he died, but both DF and DM didn't want carers helping them. I think my DM looks back now and wonders why they didn't. They propped each other up and didn't call on us to help either.

Good grief. No, it doesn't make her DH 'absolutely wicked'. What dramatic nonsense.

Have you tried to persuade an elderly relative to do something they didn't want to do, as a matter of interest? If they are adamant that the only options they will consider are 'move into your unsuitable rented house' and 'stay here grimly till I fall downstairs', and they have capacity to make their own decisions, you are frankly a bit stuck.

And the bar for 'capacity to refuse' is quite low.

We are currently having this discussion with three out of four elderly parents, one of whom doesn't know what day it is or who I am, and yet still apparently can decide NOT to have carers, attend appointments, eat, wash, or move somewhere more suitable.

Ask her how she thinks living with you would work. Maybe let her come to the realisation it wouldn't work herself. Maybe even let her try it out for a day - have her there on a week day and see the morning rush and then everyone going out and leaving her. OK, so your dp actually has the day off and returns an hour later, but maybe she needs to experience the reality for herself.

I feel for her, but you are not her carer.

I think this thread has drifted some way from OP's original intention and the question she asked. All the chewing the fat over whether or not people are awful for not caring for their aged relatives at home, or whether the elderly are the selfish ones for expecting that level of care, is immaterial. The former is neither practical or possible, and in this instance won't be happening.

The ethics of that situation are not what OP was asking about. It's how on earth she breaks this to her MiL without hurting her feelings. That ship's now sailed, but sadly it was always going to.

OP's MiL is now (inevitably) upset and OP feels awful. OP, you needed a bit of support, not to be made to feel worse. Unfortunately there are several options here of which living with you is not one, so there seems to be no other answer than you and DH go through these with her, and try to find together the least painful solution all round.

It seems some people really do have children in the expectation they will look after them in their old age. I'm not one of them. And even the best intentions can go to pot when circumstances simply don't permit.

for you, OP.

At 94 it could only take one fall or infection for that to change overnight. Been there, got that t-shirt.

OP, go to the Cockroach Café threads in elderly parents (hidden away under Other). Plenty of posters there with a full wardrobe of elder care t-shirts.

@reigatecastle has articulated it well @SammyScrounge .

Looking after my chronically ill adult mother, wiping the poo from her bum multiple times a day, cleaning pooey sheets, floors and furniture from accidents, from a now terminal illness that if she had listened to me and not checked out from oversight from health care years earlier the years I missed out on being young, missing out on my gap year with my boyfriend who broke up with me as he didn’t agree with me looki after her, the years of uni I had to defer to look after her and the debt I racked up during those years as she gave me no money at all towards my expenses which had meant my savings are gone and I’m now renting, this is vastly different from my mother having 50/50 custody with my father, and having a full time live in nanny on her custody days who bathed, dressed and fed me so my mother didn’t have to. 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

Also my granny cared for my great granny, and my mum put my granny in a home and moved 4 hours away. I’ve given her years more care than the exactly zero assistance she gave her mother.

But I digress no one should ever have to care for their parents in old age unless they are both able to, and it is fair on both partners, and there is a desire to. End of story. I did it, but I don’t regret it for my father and deeply regret the years of care I gave my ungrateful mother.

@MargotChateau So sad reading your post about the drudgery you went through for your mother. You’re a kind person 💐

My DH tried repeatedly to discuss arrangements with my late FIL. When FIL was well he wasn’t interested (and didn’t ever visit us in London despite invitations). Disliked me with my modern ways (cooking curry and not changing my name when I married DH) and often made it plain.

When he fell ill, DH tried everything to get him to make adaptations to stay at home. We had the doctor begging to provide 6 weeks of carers coming in twice a day for free so he could see if it helped before he had to start paying. He refused. Wouldn’t contemplate a care home even for a couple of weeks to have a rest. Said there was no way he’d go in and he’d die at home rather than contemplate it.

Then he had a fall (last of many) that put him in hospital. DH thought at last we can have a sensible discussion about being discharged not to home but to residential care. “Oh” said FIL brightly, “well I suppose I could go in a home, but my strong preference would be to come and live with you”.

DH was 😮

He died a couple of weeks later so we never had to tell him no. But for those saying, why not discuss it earlier, it does not always work that way!

What a horrible thing to say.

@Suemademedoit it's not my husbands fault that his mum refused to discuss what would happen. She shuts down the conversation we have been trying to have it for years. She has capacity which means she is free to make her own choices which although not always wise are hers as an adult to make. There is no cognitive degeneration with her she is sharp as a tac.

There won't be any inheritance, she has used her equity release to buy her daughter who is now dead a house. She probably would have enough to buy a small flat or pay rent on sheltered accomodation. I have worked and saved really hard so don't need anyone else's money. I want her to spend it on herself to spend whatever time she has left having everything she needs. So please feel free to take your nasty comments elsewhere you sound ace 👌

We have both been over to see her after work, she was upset but let us in looked like she has been crying. I don't think for one second that she had been trying to be emotionally manipulative on purpose We have had to get my parents to look after our son.
She is scared in the house at night that she might get broken into everything must seem so frightening when there is nobody else around. We have tried asking if she will come and stay for a few days till she is feeling better but is i

Ctd......martyrdom mode. My husband is staying with her for a couple of days to make sure she is okay. Whenever she is emotionally vulnerable she is more likely to fall. Poor MIL she thinks I don't love her.

We have tried asking if she will come and stay for a few days till she is feeling better

You should try and nip that in the bud and stop offering because this provides her with a sense of over-familiarity with your home and homelife. And, thinking like her, she might think 'what's the difference' between a few days every now and then, and living there permanently. Don't encourage her, try to mainly see her at her home, not at yours.

My husband is staying with her for a couple of days to make sure she is okay.

I understand why, but I would be wary of getting into this habit, too. She could easily take advantage of this and have these emotional breakdowns more and more regularly, thinking he'll get frustrated all the time having to be there, so he'll break down and invite her to stay. I would get your DH to explain to her that he's worried about her mental health and feels she would be better off in a car home where there is security so she can feel safe.