Page 6 | Is there no way to make this country love the Tories again?

Anniegetyourgun · 16/10/2022 08:19

daisychain01 · 16/10/2022 08:07

All I know is that this is a bitter blow to women in leadership.

Woman (Truss) replaces man (Johnson), makes a complete hash up, lasts 5 minutes and man (Hunt) has to be helicoptered in like superman to take command of the situation. 🤦‍♀️

Or a bitter blow to ethnic minorities in leadership, or both? You could read it as black man makes a complete hash up, lasts 5 minutes and white man has to be helicoptered in to take command etc. Where this approach falls down, of course, is to assume Jeremy Hunt can save a damn' thing, including his own skin. The fact he's even seen as a viable option goes to show how feeble is the talent pool in the party at this time - I won't say diluted, it's more like it's thickened to a toxic sludge.

VladmirsPoutine · 16/10/2022 08:28

So as long as the person wreaking havoc to so many people's lives is wearing lipstick and a dress it somehow makes it better? Ok. Theresa May is just as bad as all of them - her tenureship at the Home office caused damage to so many lives.

Original poster

User135644 · 16/10/2022 08:28

Echobelly · 15/10/2022 22:31

I think YABU in that 'the country' does not unquestioningly love the Tories - it's the the people who vote the most are Tory voters and a lot of people who hate the Tories think they're too smart to vote.

The people who do love them are dying out as well, and the younger people they might count on to 'get more right wing' as they get older, like DH and I, are no longer doing that. We're 'supposed to' get to mid-life and think that we're doing alright for ourselves and expect the same or better for our kids if things stay as they are, therefore we'd better vote Tory. But instead we're recognising that while we may have done OK, it's only going to get harder and worse for our kids on so many levels unless something changes. And the Tories are proferring the same wrong answers to a changed world.

I just wish Labour had the guts to stop trying to be Tory-lite and to break the bullshit narrative about 'Benefit scroungers' and immigrants rather than engaging with it - it's not like they'll win over Daily Mail readers anyhow.

I think this is key. The Baby Boomers may just be the last real Tory generation, but a lot of Boomers voted for Thatcher (she had a majority among younger voters). Blair is the only non-Tory they voted for and house prices boomed under him, the economy was doing well and interest rates and inflation kept low enough.

The party is over. Most people under 50 (Millenials down and most of Gen X) just don't have the love for the Tories that the Boomers did. It's the older vote that's kept them in. Even in 2019 as a voting majority under 40s in every age group voted Labour more than Tory.

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derxa · 16/10/2022 08:31

Won't be long until the cap doffers vote them back in. I voted Tory at the last election simply to keep Jeremy Corbyn out. Cap doffers? Meaningless clap trap. If Liz Truss is still PM at the next election I'll vote to kick her out too.

MarshaBradyo · 16/10/2022 08:31

User135644 · 16/10/2022 08:28

I think this is key. The Baby Boomers may just be the last real Tory generation, but a lot of Boomers voted for Thatcher (she had a majority among younger voters). Blair is the only non-Tory they voted for and house prices boomed under him, the economy was doing well and interest rates and inflation kept low enough.

The party is over. Most people under 50 (Millenials down and most of Gen X) just don't have the love for the Tories that the Boomers did. It's the older vote that's kept them in. Even in 2019 as a voting majority under 40s in every age group voted Labour more than Tory.

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But we get older? So don’t people’s political views change and the older demographic is still pretty big comparatively.

Not everyone of course but the young tend to be more left and shift as they age

KalvinPhillipsBoots · 16/10/2022 08:35

Nothing, I have and never will love them, ever

KalvinPhillipsBoots · 16/10/2022 08:37

TheOtherBoleynGirls · 15/10/2022 20:24

I’ll answer this as someone who grew up in a Tory household, and it probably slightly more to the right of the centre - though I have actually never voted Tory. I have always voted Lib Dem, but in each election I’d generally felt it was a choice between Lib Dem and Tory, Labour never quite spoke to me (though the Centrists that left the party a few years ago would have probably won me over).

What the Tory government have done to this country, particularly over the past 5 years, have left me finally understanding why my Dad, who policed through the Winter of Discontent, feels he might never vote Labour. They have shafted everything and everyone and it will take a very, very long time before I would ever be willing to consider them a “different” enough party to even think about voting for them.

Voters like you are the reason we are in this mess. The Tories have been in power 12 years, they are the only ones to blame, no one else, and yet people still vote for them just because they do not wasn't to vote Labour.

Original poster

User135644 · 16/10/2022 08:38

MarshaBradyo · 16/10/2022 08:31

But we get older? So don’t people’s political views change and the older demographic is still pretty big comparatively.

Not everyone of course but the young tend to be more left and shift as they age

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Yes, people will get conservative as they age but not to the extent the Boomers did. A generation who were already conservative (a majority of whom as an electorate voted Thatcher in their 20s and 30s). The Tory vote among people in their 20s and 30s has been pitiful for a long time now.

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Original poster

User135644 · 16/10/2022 08:39

KalvinPhillipsBoots · 16/10/2022 08:37

Voters like you are the reason we are in this mess. The Tories have been in power 12 years, they are the only ones to blame, no one else, and yet people still vote for them just because they do not wasn't to vote Labour.

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People who don't want to vote Labour or Tory should vote someone else and bang the drum for PR.

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MarshaBradyo · 16/10/2022 08:42

User135644 · 16/10/2022 08:38

Yes, people will get conservative as they age but not to the extent the Boomers did. A generation who were already conservative (a majority of whom as an electorate voted Thatcher in their 20s and 30s). The Tory vote among people in their 20s and 30s has been pitiful for a long time now.

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It’s a shifting situation. Older voters had the 70s and winter of discontent and oth many seem to not love Thatcher but the opposite.

It also depends what happens under Labour. We loved Blair for a decade then Labour out for 12 years.

So we’ll see. If they deliver what people are expecting maybe so, if not than people turn away again. Cycles and the world is so changeable atm, hard to predict.

TheOtherBoleynGirls · 16/10/2022 08:46

KalvinPhillipsBoots · 16/10/2022 08:37

Voters like you are the reason we are in this mess. The Tories have been in power 12 years, they are the only ones to blame, no one else, and yet people still vote for them just because they do not wasn't to vote Labour.

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Er, I very clearly said that I have never voted Tory…

ByeByeMissAmericanPie · 16/10/2022 08:46

Politics is an utter sh*tshow. I have to disengage for a few weeks every now and again. It’s like watching Spitting Image in RL.

Then I go back to watching news updates. After all, a lot changes in 24hrs.

I still can’t get my head around the fact that we had a WHOLE SUMMER of Conservative candidate campaigning for only 172,000 to vote.

97,000 (or thereabouts) voted for Truss.

So 97,000 people voted for a woman who thought she could turn our economy on its head, and get away with it.

I’ll leave someone else to work out what percentage that is of the population.

TheOtherBoleynGirls · 16/10/2022 08:48

Mammyloveswine · 15/10/2022 22:48

Are you taking the piss??! Labour haven't been in government for TWELVE years.. economically they were much stronger and they cut waiting times in the nhs to a record low...

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I can see that scans wrong - the TORIES have shafted everyone, not Labour. I meant I now feel about the Tories as my Dad felt about Labour, but I didn’t make that clear.

Pipsquiggle · 16/10/2022 09:05

daisychain01 · 16/10/2022 08:09

Tories only care about tories and staying in power - that's it

is that new news though? Surely that's the aim of any political party. I can't see Labour being any different.

Yet only the tories changed the boundary lines to make sure they stayed in power and put a disproportionate amount of their mates in the House of Lords to ensure their laws pass - this has all happened in the last 12 years.

The above screws ALL other opposition as Scotland essentially votes SNP (who can blame them) so this wipes out 50+ seats from Labour's /Lib Dems grasp.

The first past the post system is fundamentally flawed and keeps the Tories in power.

jetadore · 16/10/2022 09:13

The Tory voters may be back in the closet for now, but don’t you worry, our backers (the rich and powerful and our friends in the media) will make sure the party’s back where we belong soon enough.

RainStalksMyWashing · 16/10/2022 11:59

I'm a floating voter, but think the last few years especially have put me off Tories for life. They seem hellbent on screwing up the country and it feels like a waiting game until the next G.E. to see how much wreckage is left to save. It's self first, party second and country doesn't get a look in. Seeing the amount of money wasted on corruption, the lack of accountability, the continual lies, the stoking of division...

Blossomtoes · 16/10/2022 12:07

jetadore · 16/10/2022 09:13

The Tory voters may be back in the closet for now, but don’t you worry, our backers (the rich and powerful and our friends in the media) will make sure the party’s back where we belong soon enough.

How? They can’t buy the way out of this shitshow, unless they’re prepared to cough up the tens of billions needed to fill hole in the UK economy. The mass media - including Murdoch - hate backing a loser, that’s why The Sun backed Blair. You’re deluded.

Pipsquiggle · 16/10/2022 12:10

Also I don't think I will ever forgive the tories for Brexit. It was totally and completely of their making

Cameron only said he would hold a referendum to appease his back benches and he didn't expect to get a majority government. Most ordinary folk did not care about leaving the EU one jot until the referendum and all lies were spewed out

Utterlystill652 · 16/10/2022 12:19

Pipsquiggle · 16/10/2022 12:10

Also I don't think I will ever forgive the tories for Brexit. It was totally and completely of their making

Cameron only said he would hold a referendum to appease his back benches and he didn't expect to get a majority government. Most ordinary folk did not care about leaving the EU one jot until the referendum and all lies were spewed out

^^ Absolutely this!

People try to claim that this current political shambles is unrelated to Brexit but when the Tory party turned its back on broadly Christian-democrat centrist values of the EU, and chucked out the 'wet' one nation MPs, there was only one place the party was going and that was to the dogs lead by neo liberal extremists!

Hawkins001 · 16/10/2022 12:30

User135644 · 15/10/2022 20:16

In 2019 it looked like it was going to be the Tory decade (2020s) and Boris would have at least 10 years to run the country, Tory mania was at its peak. It's astonishing how much 3 years have changed the whole countries unquestioning love of the Conservative Party.

Is it over? Can they win back the hearts of the public? If so, how? Surely Truss would have to go.

AIBU - yes the country we'll doff our caps and tug our forelocks again once we're in the voting booth

AINBO - they're fucked

debate, Part of the issues are who is altering election votes ect, presuming that's a factor, as unless proven that it has happened, then it's one of those mysteries, but it could account for when the polls e.g. Show x and for all.intends it should be, but if the vote suddenly goes differently then how much of that result can be attributed to.someone rigging the votes for x party etc
I think that's what also effects the academic research side of the events because then the real analysis would be different.

Florenz · 16/10/2022 12:37

I can say for absolute fact that at any point in the last 30 years, if the EU referendum would have been run, Brexit would have won. At some points it would have been far more one sided than 52/48. A large proportion of people have never liked being in the EU or received any benefit from it whatsoever. Cameron just didn't realise this because in his circles, the EU is popular, people can afford to send their children to study in foreign countries, can afford to go travelling for a year or more, have the education and connections to be able to get highly paid jobs in any country they wish. Most normal people weren't able to benefit from any of that, which is why Brexit won.

RainStalksMyWashing · 16/10/2022 12:45

Florenz · 16/10/2022 12:37

I can say for absolute fact that at any point in the last 30 years, if the EU referendum would have been run, Brexit would have won. At some points it would have been far more one sided than 52/48. A large proportion of people have never liked being in the EU or received any benefit from it whatsoever. Cameron just didn't realise this because in his circles, the EU is popular, people can afford to send their children to study in foreign countries, can afford to go travelling for a year or more, have the education and connections to be able to get highly paid jobs in any country they wish. Most normal people weren't able to benefit from any of that, which is why Brexit won.

I think the referendum result would have been easier for many to swallow if there weren't so many lies. If there was such demand for Brexit, why the need to lie so much in the leave campaign? Surely more honest arguments would have won the people over then?

Original poster

User135644 · 16/10/2022 12:57

Florenz · 16/10/2022 12:37

I can say for absolute fact that at any point in the last 30 years, if the EU referendum would have been run, Brexit would have won. At some points it would have been far more one sided than 52/48. A large proportion of people have never liked being in the EU or received any benefit from it whatsoever. Cameron just didn't realise this because in his circles, the EU is popular, people can afford to send their children to study in foreign countries, can afford to go travelling for a year or more, have the education and connections to be able to get highly paid jobs in any country they wish. Most normal people weren't able to benefit from any of that, which is why Brexit won.

Consider the perfect storm that led to the 2016 Leave vote. The 2015 migrant crisis, Cameron who was the establishment PM leading the Remain campaign, Corbyn as Labour leader who never liked the EU himself was never going to back Remain much, Boris Johnson being a high profile Brexit voice in the build up, non-stop lies from the right-wing press, Farage on every BBC show for years. Given all that it should have been more than 52-48.

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TooBigForMyBoots · 16/10/2022 13:11

Florenz · 16/10/2022 12:37

I can say for absolute fact that at any point in the last 30 years, if the EU referendum would have been run, Brexit would have won. At some points it would have been far more one sided than 52/48. A large proportion of people have never liked being in the EU or received any benefit from it whatsoever. Cameron just didn't realise this because in his circles, the EU is popular, people can afford to send their children to study in foreign countries, can afford to go travelling for a year or more, have the education and connections to be able to get highly paid jobs in any country they wish. Most normal people weren't able to benefit from any of that, which is why Brexit won.

While you can continue to spout uninformed opinion based on lies told to you by the Leave Campaign @Florenz, do not call it fact.

Pipsquiggle · 16/10/2022 13:17

Florenz · 16/10/2022 12:37

I can say for absolute fact that at any point in the last 30 years, if the EU referendum would have been run, Brexit would have won. At some points it would have been far more one sided than 52/48. A large proportion of people have never liked being in the EU or received any benefit from it whatsoever. Cameron just didn't realise this because in his circles, the EU is popular, people can afford to send their children to study in foreign countries, can afford to go travelling for a year or more, have the education and connections to be able to get highly paid jobs in any country they wish. Most normal people weren't able to benefit from any of that, which is why Brexit won.

I totally disagree.

Most of the Leave vote was about tighter controls on immigration (a perfectly valid position). This was already within our control and successive governments failed to change any rules.

We did not have to leave the EU to make the above happen.