To have refused to take nephew out for the day?

[iz92]

Nephew is 15, y11, he hasn't done a full week at school this academic year with having one day off a week or attending one day and having the rest of the week off, he attended 4 days last week, had the Friday off and has so far had the whole of this week off, his parents don't seem to care, in their defence he did skip school Monday and Tuesday but yesterday he said he didn't want to go for no particular reason, and the same today. When he doesn't go he just stays in bed on his devices (which I wouldn't allow but I'm not his parent!).

Today, I'm going to take DD to a trampoline park, as she only attends nursery a few days a week and she's off today, his mum has asked if I can take him along as he'd enjoy it, I've said no as he should be at school and that'd be rewarding him for not attending and its half term soon so he can go then. BIL spoke to DH and DH has said I'm BU as I know nephew struggles with his anxiety which is probably why he isn't going, I disagree as yes I understand he has anxiety but I think he isn't going as he finds staying at home more fun.

AIBU?

@nlconfused - so so hard to watch it happening and not be able to wave a wand and make it better for them.

Hopefully, things will start to improve and access to the required support provided. Wishing you all the very best for continued recovery and regaining some form of normality.

Erm, it’s absolutely less valid.
It’s gross to equate a real diagnosis with someone saying they feel anxious, don’t want to do any school work but it’s somehow not enough of an issue to see the GP for help. Statements like yours are why actually valid mental health issues aren’t taken seriously.

@BackToNormalish Exactly. Thank for your kind thoughts and the same to you.

I wasn't any less anxious before my diagnosis than I was after. I just hadn't managed to see the gp yet. And appointments are like fucking hens teeth around here.

If it really was about anxiety then why is he not doing school work at home? Why is he led in bed on tech? How is this making anything better? It's bollocks imo and his parents are lazy and failing him.

No one can seem to answer why they let their school refusing dc be on tech during the day either. It seems like some parents do everything but actually hold a boundary.

What if they haven't been able to diagnose it yet? It doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

It took months for my nephew to get a diagnosis. He was so anxious that he wouldn't engage with councillors, the GP etc. It certainly didn't mean that he wasn't suffering the anxiety, just because it hadn't yet been formally diagnosed.

My ds needs to be "on tech" to do the small amount of work we can find that is appropriate (school refuses to help at all with what we should or shouldn't do so I'm just doing the best i can).
He also researches things he is interested in and then writes/draws about the topic.

We also chill out and watch TV sometimes. Or get the craft stuff out and make things. Because as his mum I know what he needs.

*If it really was about anxiety then why is he not doing school work at home? Why is he led in bed on tech? How is this making anything better? It's bollocks imo and his parents are lazy and failing him.

No one can seem to answer why they let their school refusing dc be on tech during the day either. It seems like some parents do everything but actually hold a boundary*

I'll tell that to my brother, shall I? That he and his wife are lazy parents because they let their school refusing son use tech in bed. To be honest, at the moment, it's the only thing that gives their son any pleasure in life at all. It's a way for him to connect with his friends and the outside world, when his anxiety means that he's unable to connect in more conventional ways. Without his tech, both his parents and his psychiatrist are fairly sure that things would be way worse than they are now. He doesn't do school work at home because it's all wrapped up in the school refusal.

That's not to say that he's on his tech all the time. He is encouraged, in small ways, to re-engage with the outside world. Things such as a trip to a place he enjoys are hugely encouraged.

They already think they are failing him because they can't get him the help he needs. They're are so worried about it that they've needed counselling themselves, to stop from falling apart. But it's ok, I'll tell them that they're lazy, and it's all just bollocks. . Because you said so.

I answered it. But in more detail it's because a certain game franchise is his current special interest and he uses it to help regulate his emotions. Previous special interests have included a series of books and Lego, so it varies. But at the moment it's a game, so he plays the game, watches other people play it on YouTube, and listens to the soundtrack.

(And to the person who seems to think a diagnosis creates the condition, given that DS has yet to be diagnosed with ASD, I assume you think we should treat him as if he's NT even though that's proven to be a disaster?)

So, whilst you weren't being unreasonable not to take him out if you wanted it to just be you and your dd, your attitude towards your nephew and his parents is totally unreasonable.

I have a 16 year old ds. He has been refusing school for the last two years (year 10 and 11). I am educated to post grad degree level, as is my DH. My two daughters have both been in school fulltime (although the elder one has now left, having doner her A levels last summer and is planning to go to University next September). So I think you can see that we do, really value education.

My son hasn't been happy in school since about year 3 or 4, but he carried on going and even managed 100% attendance when he was in year 6. The transition to secondary school didn't work well, we felt unsupported by the school, but it wasn't until year 9 that he started refusing to go. We moved him to a different school for year 10. They couldn;t have been more undrestanding - making adjustments to his timetable, giving him access to a quiet room, giving him a pass to leave lessons etc etc, but by that point, I think it was just too late.

He has anxiety and panic attacks. He has never been formally diagnosed because I can't get him anywhere near CAHMS - around here, you have to be actively psychotic or suicidal to see CAHMS and several referrals have all been refused saying "He doesn't meet the criteria". Our GP referred him for counselling, but wouldn't prescribe any medication without CAHMS seeing him. Total stalemate. He is also autistic - this was diagnosed privately because the waiting list is about three years long for assessment here currently and he wasn't referred until he started at the new school because the old school laughed at me when I expressed concern he may have ASD.

I paid for a private psychologist out of desperation, which has helped, but he still cannot put himself in certain situations. I have tried everything to try and get him to go to school - being tough and removing tech, being kind, cajoling etc etc. You name it, we have tried it. It doesn't work. I never know which is the right approach to take and I am worried I have damaged his mental health and made him worse by trying to make him go when he isn't happy to go. I have been sat outside school with him on the car, wanting to go in, but having a full on panic attack at the thought of it. If he won't go, he won't go and there's nothing I can do that will make him. Currently, home is his safe place and he trusts me and his Dad - if we push too hard, he won't trust us any longer and home won't be safe for him any longer and then what would happen?

He isn't as bad as some. I would say his attendance has been around 70% for year 10 and 11 and he managed to do really well in his GCSEs. He went back for sixth form and came home after an hour, saying he couldn't go back. He's not in a small independent school and managing reasonably well so far, although his attendance isn't perfect.

We are lucky that we can afford to pay for help and I really feel for people who can't. It has been the most stressful few years of our lives, it is truly awful to go through, so please, everyone saying we should just make them go - it isn't that simple. We should get them diagnosed and medicated - Ha Ha, I'd like to see you try. Get them properly assessed for neurodiversity? Alchemy is easier. Just make a panicking teenager go to school? Well, if you have at least two strong men who can drag him there kicking and screaming and don't care about his mental health getting even worse? And even if you get him there, how do you make him stay?

My DS was refused any help by camhs for his crippling anxiety. We were signposted to an organisation for counselling which he is currently having but they aren't really experienced in dealing with school avoidance. They want DS to talk about his anxiety issues but he simply can't. They find it frustrating. His initial practitioner (who diagnosed him with ASD) suggested a Speech and Language Therapy referral but that was also declined as he isn't considered severe enough. So all those suggesting OPs DN get some medication or help from camhs it's a bloody nightmare getting any sort of help, and if the child isn't well enough to engage then that makes it impossible.

I always tell my friends to pray their DC never need any support with mental health because there's fuck all available on the NHS. Unless, like a PP said, they're self harming or psychotic but from reading through the Child MH section here it's clear how hard it is for parents to access adequate support even then.

CatchersAndDreams

why is my dd not doing school work at home? Because she isn’t well enough. Because adults who are off wirk for mental health reasons don’t get asked to work from home. Because she’s recovering from the huge amount that going into school takes out of her.

Why do I let her on tech?
Because she isn’t being punished. She has accessed some school work online. She is isolated and tech helps her maintain social contact. Because she is using the headspace app and mindfulness podcasts. Because she has the kindle app and is reading… mainly because she isn’t being punished for being ill, or having her life made more shitty than it already is. Hope this helps.

budgiegirl exactly. Some people just don’t get it.

I’m lazy and failing my child? Ok. I’m driving in and out to and from school, have had endless time off work, have taken her to a private specialist that’s a two hour drive away… spend hours in meetings, facilitate just about anything that will help her a tiny bit… but ok, I am lazy because she has her phone 🤦‍♀️

I think this post shows how shockingly bad our mental health provisions is for kids and how we have little alternatives than main stream school
I have a friend who dd refused school last two years primary it wad really hard them getting her in
She started secondary and they handled it very differently the school and she had a much better experience and she praised the school so much so it seems some schools are set up better than others and as usual a bit of a postcode lottery
With covid on top MH issues in kids is likely to be higher so we really need more funding so any kid that needs help gets that help and early on

@Jadebanditchillipepper I could have written your post and I identify with everything you say.

I was diagnosed as Autistic when I was 23. Does this mean my needs were any less valid the day before? There are certain things that are so difficult to diagnose as well. (I've been waiting for a proper diagnosis since I was 5 months old; I'm now 33 and no closer to an answer) Does that make my needs any less valid than my diagnosed medical conditions?

@TigerRag sorry to ask but how do you go about getting a diagnosis when older ?
My ds19 i have always had some feeling he may but never looked at when he was younger or taken notice off when I brought it up , he is now saying him self he also thinks he may be autistic but have no idea how we go about finding out as an adult

around here, you have to be actively psychotic or suicidal to see CAHMS and several referrals have all been refused saying "He doesn't meet the criteria".

Yep. First off apparently they tend to refuse anyone waiting for ASD assessment. And secondly they don't do anxiety.

I've heard some awful things about people trying to access CAMHS as I work for a mental health charity - sometimes suicidal, including with actual attempts, isn't enough.

I've been trying to get DS help since February, which was months before the school refusal started. I am furious that the only referral accepted was the ND Pathway (with 26 month waiting list), and all the rest were refused. Timely help and support could have prevented the school refusal, but nobody would do anything until it reached that point - and it didn't come out of nowhere, it was a very foreseeable outcome.

Were you telling people you were autistic before being diagnosed?
Did you decide you were autistic and then refuse to see a doctor or specialist ever to seek assistance?
Did you make demands on other people, saying it was because you had self diagnosed as autistic?

Self-diagnosing or identifying into a condition while refusing a medical professional’s assessment is vastly different to being diagnosed.

I don't think you are being unreasonable for not taking him, although if you are concerned he stays in bed all day on screens then you had the opportunity to change that for a day and chose not to, so not sure that puts you in a strong position to judge.

It is clear you have no understanding of school refusal and anxiety in teenagers. Kids are suffering and killing themselves over these things. Judge less. It's not as easy as you seem to think it is.

I recommend telling his parents to join the Facebook group not fine in school. Perhaps you could also join to educate yourself and get more understanding about what your family are actually going through and the little support that is actually available in schools.

Some absolute shit being spouted on this thread. Yanbu not to take him of you don't want to OP. You don't have to.

My daughter suffers from anxiety surrounding emetophobia. Some days she will not move if she feels sick. She will not eat or drink. Last week I had to try and physically force her to school all it did was upset us both and made me feel like the shittest mum.

I think we need to look at individual situations. A typical school environment will not be the best thing for some children. All our children are different hey we have such a blanket one size fits all approach to education.

And I'm laughing at people suggesting CAHMS. Good luck with that. My daughter struggles as mentioned above but apparently it's not within their mental health criteria.

It's really not as simple as forcing them to go or making them do chores from 7 in the morning as punishment for not being able to go. Oh to be THAT naive.

Not being facetious, but there's no reason to have no idea how to find something out today when you can google it. There's a wealth of info out there, from the official lines on the NHS website to private services, to people's personal stories and news articles and FAQs. Even searching on Mumsnet will pull up many threads on how best to go about it. We looked into it and now my son has his diagnosis and it's been very helpful. Have a read around and get the ball rolling.

I wouldn't have taken him either.

School refusal is a complicated issue, but "rewarding" it with a trip to a trampoline place probably isn't the answer either.

Also, I can't think of a single 15 yo who would find a trip to a trampoline place with a nursery age, opposite gender kid, an enticing prospect...

For all those saying OP should be more sympathetic. This isn't her problem to solve.

I think this is where you lack understanding about school refusal

Being up at the same time, chores, garden work, you name it they'd have to do it is a reward not a threat,

Personally I think I should have left school at 14. I really wanted to leave. I was made to stay and for the extra 2 years I was there I managed 0 qualifications, got more and more depressed. It took me years to recover and I think I really lost all hope for the future.
I would have loved doing gardening and chores instead of sitting in a classroom bored out of my mind waiting for 2 year to slowly tick by

Im about to put my 10year old who has anxiety, to bed. I can guarantee I'll be there for at least 30minutes and a panic attack about going to school tomorrow, even though she's on half days. She hasn't done a full week for way over a month. I still take her places. I'm not going to punish her!