To have refused to take nephew out for the day?

[iz92]

Nephew is 15, y11, he hasn't done a full week at school this academic year with having one day off a week or attending one day and having the rest of the week off, he attended 4 days last week, had the Friday off and has so far had the whole of this week off, his parents don't seem to care, in their defence he did skip school Monday and Tuesday but yesterday he said he didn't want to go for no particular reason, and the same today. When he doesn't go he just stays in bed on his devices (which I wouldn't allow but I'm not his parent!).

Today, I'm going to take DD to a trampoline park, as she only attends nursery a few days a week and she's off today, his mum has asked if I can take him along as he'd enjoy it, I've said no as he should be at school and that'd be rewarding him for not attending and its half term soon so he can go then. BIL spoke to DH and DH has said I'm BU as I know nephew struggles with his anxiety which is probably why he isn't going, I disagree as yes I understand he has anxiety but I think he isn't going as he finds staying at home more fun.


AIBU?

[b8tes7sw]

@aSofaNearYou

Well it IS just the parents job, isn't it. It's a big ask for a day out with a preschooler to suddenly become about helping a 15 year old "find his way".

That's a sad opinion. Never heard the term 'its takes a village'? Children are influenced by many people in their lives, not just parents.

[HeidiWhole]

Good god - the ignorance about poor mental health/school refusal and anxiety in teenagers here is breathtaking.

Anyone who honestly thinks they could get an anxious, almost fully grown 15 year old school refusing boy out of bed at 7am to do tedious chores is kidding themselves. And if they could it's because the child is so anxious about school that they would actually rather do that than be forced to go.

If it was as easy as 'do as you're told' we'd have them in school

[EilonwyWithRedGoldHair]

@worriedatthistime

@EilonwyWithRedGoldHair does he do school work at all or any if the curriculum ?

Not at the moment, though it's been discussed. A lot of the school work apparently isn't really suitable to be fine at home as there is a lot of group work. Experience from home schooling during lockdown suggests it would be nigh on impossible to get DS to do much of it anyway. Maybe the maths, as it has clear rules and a correct answer.

The Engagement Team is working with us, and have been great, getting him into school for half an hour to do an activity. But it's the other children, he doesn't want to see or be seen by them, he literally flinches away.

We also have to try and balance all this with keeping meltdowns to minimum as he'll injure us and try and hurt himself. And we have no support with that yet.

[NImumconfused]

@BackToNormalish It is absolutely hard to watch their world shrink to home and a few family members, DD used to enjoy going out so much, playing with friends and having sleepovers - there's none of that now. That's why it's so galling to have people say they're enjoying themselves bunking off school - she's utterly miserable, she wants to be in school and do these things but she just can't.

We spent hours sat in the car outside school in the early stages of this, to no avail, sometimes teachers would come out and try to force her in, but the upshot of that was just that she no longer got into the car (or got dressed or left her room) in the first place.

It is incredibly hard to deal with and my sympathy to all the parents on this thread who are going through it

[BadNomad]

Well, that's nasty. Anxiety is a mental health issue. It can also be a symptom of a range of ND conditions. Either way, it's not something you can "reward" or "punish". For all you know a day out of the house doing something he likes might actually help raise his mood and make him feel more up for going to school the next day.

[Mommabear20]

It's one thing to refuse to go to school, but anxiety or not, I wouldn't be rewarding it by taking him out for a fun day. YANBU

[Poppinjay]

@WombOfOnesOwn

The worst thing for anxiety is to have it catered to. Reinforcing anxiety by shaping your life around it makes it worse, not better. Anxiety interventions that actually succeed with children and adults are based in NOT "accommodating" the behavior.

For real help: chadd.org/attention-article/space-a-parent-based-intervention-for-reducing-childhood-anxiety/

When the anxiety is founded in trauma cause by unmet need in an educational setting, insisting that the child returns to be traumatised further destroys their mental health.

[Poppinjay]

@Mommabear20

It's one thing to refuse to go to school, but anxiety or not, I wouldn't be rewarding it by taking him out for a fun day. YANBU

This is exactly what the CAMHS psychologist told me to do when my 12YO was unable to attend school due to anxiety.

As a headteacher, I positively encourage parents to do things with their children that support their mental wellbeing and self esteem when they are unable to attend school due to anxiety.

[Georgeskitchen]

@iz92

No, he hasn't been diagnosed with anxiety by a professional but as I've said I understand he is anxious but taking him somewhere fun would be encouraging him to stay at home, he does leave the house so it wouldn't be for that benefit. It'll also make him more anxious in the long run because he'll be used to staying at home and will be very behind on work, and this year is his gcse year.

Why has he not been seen by a professional? Are his parents not being taken to court for his non attendance at school?
What are his parents doing to help him? They have 2 options, IMO, Get him properly diagnosed and get some help, or remove all his devices, take him by the scruff of his neck, and frogmarch him into school

[Sirzy]

@Mommabear20

It's one thing to refuse to go to school, but anxiety or not, I wouldn't be rewarding it by taking him out for a fun day. YANBU

It’s not about rewarding though. It’s about making steps forward which for too many just leaving the house is. It’s all part of the progress.

[AnneLovesGilbert]

@BadNomad

Well, that's nasty. Anxiety is a mental health issue. It can also be a symptom of a range of ND conditions. Either way, it's not something you can "reward" or "punish". For all you know a day out of the house doing something he likes might actually help raise his mood and make him feel more up for going to school the next day.

His mum was at home. She could have taken him anywhere. He’s barely in school, his parents have plenty of time, including weekends, for outings, day trips and entertaining him.

No one has made an argument for how it’s OP’s job. And the it takes a village posts, does that extend to OP trying to chivvy him along to go to school? If she tried that would she be right or would she be told he’s already got 2 parents and it’s not up to her to interfere?

[WombOfOnesOwn]

@Poppinjay

When the anxiety is founded in trauma cause by unmet need in an educational setting, insisting that the child returns to be traumatised further destroys their mental health.

Absurd and incorrect. "we can beat anxiety by removing this child from their anxiety triggers" makes it worse. Repeated exposure to triggers is the only solution that results in kids being able to live independent lives instead of failing to launch due to over-accommodation. Read more about the SPACE methodology. It works and has helped thousands of families.

[BadNomad]

@AnneLovesGilbert

His mum was at home. She could have taken him anywhere. He’s barely in school, his parents have plenty of time, including weekends, for outings, day trips and entertaining him.

No one has made an argument for how it’s OP’s job. And the it takes a village posts, does that extend to OP trying to chivvy him along to go to school? If she tried that would she be right or would she be told he’s already got 2 parents and it’s not up to her to interfere?

No one is saying it's the OP's job to take him out. People are commenting on her reason for not doing it. She has decided that would be a reward, therefore she will not reward him. It isn't her job to reward or punish him. It isn't her job to judge his behaviour.

[budgiegirl]

As a headteacher, I positively encourage parents to do things with their children that support their mental wellbeing and self esteem when they are unable to attend school due to anxiety

That's great to hear. It's amazing how many people on here are saying they wouldn't reward school refusal. It's not a reward to take the child out, it's a boost to their self esteem, to help them with their anxiety.

I accept that some children swing the lead, and don't go to school because they just don't want to. That's not school refusal, that's truancy, and I would think that these children are in the vast minority. If the child is suffering from anxiety, it's more likely to be school refusal.

Either way, it's not up to the OP to decide to punish her nephew for not going to school. Of course, she's not unreasonable not to take her nephew to the trampoline park if she doesn't want to, but she is unreasonable to refuse to because she thinks he doesn't deserve to go. That's his parents call to make.

[Potat0soup]

1. Teenagers with mental health issues are still teenagers. they aren't some special martyr breed of teen that would never manipulate a situation to get them to a trampoline park.

2. Not your kid. Not your problem. Anxiety or otherwise. Spend time with your kid on your day off . It sounds like this is not even your actual nephew, but your husband's? And yes, that means he's your nephew until someone divorces and then you never see your in laws again!

3. Fuck all the men in this story. For deciding your time and for tattling on you and telling your husband how you should behave and your husband for going along with it

[CornishTin]

@WombOfOnesOwn - I think I’ll stick to CAMHS advice rather than yours. Forcing a distressed child into school is no longer encouraged and can cause trauma

[Sirzy]

There’s a way to encourage things but it has to be done gently and at the young persons pace.

ds is now able to pretty much attend school but only when on timetable and with a lot of adjustment to let it happen. But that comes
at the cost of him not being able to do anything else a lot of the time. Next week he is going on his first trip with school since year 3 (he is year 8 now) but it has taken a lot of work to get to this point and it still involves me driving him as he couldn’t cope with a coach! (And he hasn’t got out of the car there yet…)

[Bumblefuzz]

My DD is 12 and has an anxiety diagnosis and has previously had counselling through CAMHS. She's currently awaiting counselling through the school service and a paediatrician appointment as we may be at the point of medicating. We are currently dealing with self harming, disordered eating, hair cutting and a very insular and obsessive relationship.

We have gone through periods of school avoidance, but I have always been conscious that the longer they stay away, the harder it is to go back. I don't let her stay on devices all day though, as they aren't good for MH issues. They cause introversion and encourage less human interaction.

I don't think the parents are really taking responsibility for the issue. A diagnosis of anxiety is often made through GP. It is also possible to receive counselling online via zoom or teams. I probably would be questioning whether it was a genuine MH issue or just a preference to stay home on gadgets.

[EilonwyWithRedGoldHair]

@WombOfOnesOwn

Absurd and incorrect. "we can beat anxiety by removing this child from their anxiety triggers" makes it worse. Repeated exposure to triggers is the only solution that results in kids being able to live independent lives instead of failing to launch due to over-accommodation. Read more about the SPACE methodology. It works and has helped thousands of families.

But it should be done in steps, and each step should be manageable. The first step was just to get DS to walk over to the school, for example.

I try to keep doing nice things to roughly outside of school hours, but it was getting to the point that DS didn't want to leave the house at all, so if he'll agree to a walk lunchtime, it's fine, if just to maintain some contact with the outside world and to get him off screens for a bit.

[lemonsaretheonlyfruit]

@JennyForeigner2

Yours is possibly the most uninformed, inaccurate and judgemental comment I have ever come across. Would you believe that many of us who have DC who 'school refuse' through anxiety or poor mental health care desperately about our children's' education.

We spend hours communicating with the school, Camhs, researching, taking time off work, crying and researching to do anything to help our DC get back into school.

Many of us work in education and have reached a high level of education ourselves.

I can tell you now that the vast majority of these cases are not to do with their upbringing. In the same way that those with children who are flying (I have one of each) pat themselves on back thinking how marvellously they have done.

I suggest you either don't comment or do some research yourself to understand the issue before you do again.

[Wibbly1008]

@JennyForeigner2

There’s nothing ignorant about not taking a truant to a trampoline park.

There’s quite a lot of ignorance in thinking that someone not attending school,should be taken out for treats like this.

This! Supporting is not conspiring. He won’t go to school if he thinks there are better options like the trampoline park, will he ? Regardless of anxiety.

[NoYouSirName]

WombOfOnesOwn I get what you are saying and why you are saying it. It is a fairly outdated model though and doesn’t work for many groups of children, including neurodivergent children who are experiencing sensory overload in school.

This was my approach too when my dd first began to experience school avoidance and severe anxiety. It made things so much worse as she felt unsafe in our relationship.

Her therapist told me to back off and advocated a no pressure approach. Therapist was absolutely clear that if dd said school was too much for her that day, we were to believe her and just leave it. We did. She was home educated for two terms and as the pressure and anxiety was reduced she began to engage with life again.

This September she made her own decision to return to school, taking it at her own pace. School have been completely supportive. She goes in for an hour a day 1:1. She isn’t ready to increase that yet but it is all driven by her, I was happy to home Ed through her secondary school years.

The zero pressure approach has been key, and didn’t increase her avoidance as I feared. It’s been explained to me that she was constantly in fight or flight mode and couldn’t reason or challenge her own anxiety. These days if she says she needs a break, she stays home. It’s only happened 3 or 4 times since September which compared to where she was is amazing.

[NoYouSirName]

JennyForeigner2 he isn’t a truant. Mental health is as real as any other illness and his mental health might actually be helped by the trip.

[Wibbly1008]

Just to point out, this child may have anxiety and may have mental health problems but he also could be child that just doesn’t want to go to school and would rather be playing computer. It’s not all straight cut.

[Poppinjay]

Repeated exposure to triggers is the only solution that results in kids being able to live independent lives instead of failing to launch due to over-accommodation.

Repeated exposure to trauma is different from repeated exposure to triggers that are not harmful.