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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Bizarre incident on train...

737 replies

Redqueenheart · 11/10/2022 18:34

I had a rather unpleasant experience on my way home today on the London tube and I wonder how other people would have reacted.

I was sitting in a tube carriage and looking at images and videos I had taken from an art exhibition I visited earlier. Was really tired and just wanted to mine my own business.

A man comes in and seats next to me, fidgeting and getting a bit too close for comfort. I ignore him.

He then asks me ''What is that?''. I realise he is now looking at my phone and expects me to tell him what the picture I am looking at is.

I snap back ''That is my phone and there is something called privacy''.

To my surprise two young women who were sitting on the other said of me get involved and say ''that was rude, he was only asking you a question''.

At that point I had enough and said something in the line of ''My pictures are private and none of your business'' and moved to a different seat on the other side of the train. Heard the girls snigger but there was no more interaction after that.

I really don't get why on earth the guy thought it was OK to barge into my space and then start staring at my phone and demand my attention and why these two women actually thought it appropriate to defend him...

Afterwards I did ask myself if this was an attempt to distract me while one them would try to get something from my bag but even as it stands I was absolutely furious about these people's behaviour.

I am quite curious to hear how other people would have reacted.

OP posts:
katepilar · 11/10/2022 20:05

I would react similar to how you did. He was rude so no wonder you werent too polite.

Goosygandy · 11/10/2022 20:06

Blimey. What happens in Scotland or the North is completely irrelevant to how people are expected to interact on the London tube.

I don't think I have ever seen a guy interact with another man on the tube, unless they're all going to the football. It's always a younger woman. And it's always intrusive. I don't blame you OP.

justusandmoo · 11/10/2022 20:06

Why would you not just be polite and explain what it was. I don't see any need to be quite so blunt tbh.

MummyJ36 · 11/10/2022 20:07

Yeah you were not in the wrong. I would never dream of doing this to anyone, male
or female. It pisses me off that women are expected to be polite no matter what. Screw politeness. I’ve done it to many times. When I was 18 o was followed off the bus with my flatmate by 3 drunk middle aged men who wouldn’t leave us alone on the bus back. We were so scared and they waited outside our door after we’d gone in shouting up at us. We were petrified and they probably just thought it was funny. So no you weren’t rude. You don’t owe anyone anything!

limitededitionbarbie · 11/10/2022 20:08

Redqueenheart · 11/10/2022 19:56

I find it odd that so many women (I assume it is mainly women commenting) seem to miss a very important part of this: the man did not just seat himself down next to me like a regular passenger would, he was getting way too close with a bad case of manspreading. This man was already creeping me out because of this before he even started peering at my phone.

I have used the tube for 20 years so I know when something is not right...

It is quite amazing as to how many people seem more concerned about whether I was being polite enough to a creep or not than supporting someone who call them out on their dodgy behaviour.

Well excuse me for not being a doormat...

Why didn't you tell him to budge up or move his legs?

Zone2NorthLondon · 11/10/2022 20:08

@CrabbitBastard went to uni in Scotland, degree and post grad
i have considerable understanding of Scotland and Scottish colloquialisms
so no I don’t have a red neck and I’m no embarrassed but I’m still laughing that someone with used name crabbit is pulling up anyone else on manners

Oblomov22 · 11/10/2022 20:09

Like Benji, I would've just said 'I was at exhibition today'. What you said was very rude. Only if he kept asking questions would I have said something about wanting to concentrate.

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 11/10/2022 20:10

YellowTreeHouse · 11/10/2022 20:03

There is a difference between “not being a doormat” and being rude, aggressive and angry.

You need to learn to be assertive. Currently you’re just rude and pretending you’re being assertive.

People talk about rudeness as though it's a uniformly bad thing. There are a lot worse things in life than being rude. If it protects us from being drawn into situations with which we're uncomfortable, all to the good. It's frustrating that in every circumstance, women have to risk-assess this kind of thing very carefully. Piss off another woman and you risk a verbal confrontation; piss off a man and you could be followed, intimidated, even killed.

I'd be very careful what I said to anyone in London, going by my own prior experience, but that is NOT to shy from rudeness if called for or to soothe the ruffled feelings of intrusive men.

Taking a squint at other people's phones is extremely rude. Apparently in some worlds that's a-okay. I have no wish to be polite to people who behave like this.

Arenanewbie · 11/10/2022 20:11

You have no idea who you’re dealing with so personally, even if simply from a safety perspective, I would be calm, respectful and polite to everyone.
I agree with @Gribbit987 on this si I would try to be polite but discouraging. However deep down I would want to answer the same as you OP, or even worse.

By the way it’s a very strange remark from these two girls so I wonder maybe they’ve spotted that this guy had additional needs? It wouldn’t change much as additional needs might actually call for a direct and clear approach. Too much politeness might be wrongly seen as you being interested in him and make things worse.

katepilar · 11/10/2022 20:14

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 11/10/2022 20:05

Long prior experience of London - the tube and railway stations in particular - has made me leery of strangers fast. As my work takes me there I'm usually a lone female, and lone females attract unwanted males in that place to the extent that I now don't even make eye contact with anyone. I'm also finding trains in general an increasing problem. I would like to travel, read or work and be left alone. It's not a great deal to ask.

In OP's position I would not have engaged under any pretext, and I refuse to be drawn into any conversation that makes me uncomfortable. Non-verbal communication and the wearing of earphones usually does the trick, but some are frighteningly persistent. On one occasion I politely but firmly told a particularly hard-to-get-rid-of male 'I don't want a conversation thank you'. Just those words and no more. But if you want 'rude', this guy's response covered it amply (sexist pejoratives but of course) and OP doesn't even come close.

OP, YANBU.

Oh, I once had a man/boy to stick his head inbetween the seats on the train /he was behind me/ and said something about wanting to talk. It scared the hell out of me. I almost got up and ran. Then I decided it too much work to pick up all my belongings to move so I decided he was being just very awkward but not dangerous.

UserNameNameNameUser · 11/10/2022 20:14

I suspect the man and the two women were working together. Am I right in thinking the two women were sat on one side of you, then he came and sat on the other side, getting too close and starting to act weird, and then the two women started acting off too? So you were sandwiched between them?

it’s a pretty classic trick to disorient someone by making them feel vulnerable on both flanks.

Have you checked you’ve still got all your valuables.

MyDefaultName · 11/10/2022 20:15

CrabbitBastard · 11/10/2022 20:05

@Zone2NorthLondon someone who clearly has no understanding of Scottish terminology and uses it wrongly is not only demonstrating bad manners themselves but also and embarrassing themselves on a public forum.

Sanctimonious shite.

Chocolatetrifle · 11/10/2022 20:15

Agree with you @Redqueenheart, commuted by train for over 10 years, not London but a Northern city. Agree you can get some odd characters. You are under no obligation whatsoever to enter into conversation with this man at all. No one should ever be made to feel uncomfortable or obliged to enter into dialogue when thru don't want to with a stranger. It's not being rude, passive aggressive or unkind, you are being safe

Hollyhead · 11/10/2022 20:17

It depends, if it was a NT person I’d say fine,but something similar happened to me once with someone who had clear learning disabilities, they ruined my only hour to myself that day talking and commenting but I didn’t have the heart to stop them.

Zone2NorthLondon · 11/10/2022 20:18

Shite it’s a good word, happy to see it used in post. Kind of onomatopoeic
sanctimonious to tell you I trained in Scotland, worked on Scotland and get Scotland
oh and aye, ma ma is Irish and ma da is Scottish

Chocolatetrifle · 11/10/2022 20:18

Oh and to add to the above, I had a man follow me to work from the train once, so yes, don't talk to anyone you don't want to, you have no idea what they are thinking.

DontSuitAJumpsuit · 11/10/2022 20:19

I'm going to London with my mum next week. She would have a full blown conversation with literally anyone about anything and I'm not sure she'd really get that something someone was looking at on their phone a few inches from them Must Not Be Mentioned. Would you speak to a woman in her 70s in the same way if she commented on your phone photos? Just so I can prep her only to speak to me.

TowerRaven7 · 11/10/2022 20:20

Yanbu at all!

Zone2NorthLondon · 11/10/2022 20:20

@DontSuitAJumpsuit dont make false comparisons
a woman in her 70s is not the same as manspreading man imposing himself
you simply can’t conflate the two

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 11/10/2022 20:21

He was rude, but I've got to say that I think you were unwise to react as you did, from a safety point of view. Men who don't respect women's boundaries can react aggressively when challenged. I would have said something non-committal, then moved. It's shit that women have to make these compromises, but personally I would not take the risk of being assaulted by some twat who thinks I owe him a conversation.

ancientgran · 11/10/2022 20:21

MinnyMous · 11/10/2022 18:48

It was an opening gambit and unwanted attention. If OP hadn't been looking at pictures it would have been something else.

Show quote history

So many psychics on MN.

thelionthewitchtheaudacityofTHISbitch · 11/10/2022 20:23

Good for you for not being a doormat on a LONDON tube. You weren't rude. He was bang out of order and odd. I can only assume that the people who have questioned your behaviour are either very young & inexperienced OR have no idea about London commuting.

Readaboutyourself · 11/10/2022 20:24

Redqueenheart · 11/10/2022 19:56

I find it odd that so many women (I assume it is mainly women commenting) seem to miss a very important part of this: the man did not just seat himself down next to me like a regular passenger would, he was getting way too close with a bad case of manspreading. This man was already creeping me out because of this before he even started peering at my phone.

I have used the tube for 20 years so I know when something is not right...

It is quite amazing as to how many people seem more concerned about whether I was being polite enough to a creep or not than supporting someone who call them out on their dodgy behaviour.

Well excuse me for not being a doormat...

Good on ya! I know I would have tried to be polite and regretted it. Too often these men just don’t let up.

Time’s up on these pests.

SophieIsHereToday · 11/10/2022 20:24

Were the women from London? They might not be as alert for safety in a big city. Often people think Londoners are rude. But when people move to London they become street wise/rude eventually. You probably wouldn't have said that on a local village bus

AssignedSlytherinAtBirth · 11/10/2022 20:26

There is a world of difference between what the OP has described and, for example, sitting on a park bench and striking up a conversation with someone which then leads to "What's that picture?"
I've been in the OP's kind of situation and have told men directly that I wasn't interested in talking to them, and have then ignored them (when they gave up and moved on to someone else).