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Original poster

Bizarre incident on train...

737 replies

Redqueenheart · 11/10/2022 18:34

I had a rather unpleasant experience on my way home today on the London tube and I wonder how other people would have reacted.

I was sitting in a tube carriage and looking at images and videos I had taken from an art exhibition I visited earlier. Was really tired and just wanted to mine my own business.

A man comes in and seats next to me, fidgeting and getting a bit too close for comfort. I ignore him.

He then asks me ''What is that?''. I realise he is now looking at my phone and expects me to tell him what the picture I am looking at is.

I snap back ''That is my phone and there is something called privacy''.

To my surprise two young women who were sitting on the other said of me get involved and say ''that was rude, he was only asking you a question''.

At that point I had enough and said something in the line of ''My pictures are private and none of your business'' and moved to a different seat on the other side of the train. Heard the girls snigger but there was no more interaction after that.

I really don't get why on earth the guy thought it was OK to barge into my space and then start staring at my phone and demand my attention and why these two women actually thought it appropriate to defend him...

Afterwards I did ask myself if this was an attempt to distract me while one them would try to get something from my bag but even as it stands I was absolutely furious about these people's behaviour.

I am quite curious to hear how other people would have reacted.

OP posts:
Novum · 16/10/2022 23:08

But nice try. Also I think we tend to be able to spell where I am from. You know ''countryside'' rather than ''country side''...

You really don't help yourself with this type of comment, OP.

Novum · 16/10/2022 23:10

littleburn · 13/10/2022 08:13

I took that to mean being unnecessarily close. So yes the tube seats are small, but you actively try to not have your legs and arms touching the person next to you, for example. I've had plenty of men ignore this and manspread their arms and legs into my space. It's ignorant at best, deliberate at worst. And I'm pretty certain they don't do it to other men.

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OP doesn't say that the man was manspreading arms or legs.

ToooMuchToDo · 16/10/2022 23:14

ouch321 · 11/10/2022 18:48

I would have simply said 'pics from an an exhibition' with a look to make it clear I wasn't interested in chatting.

I was born and have grown up in London but I don't see someone attempting chit chat as deserving of the outrage and snarky response you gave.

This.

I think you were rude.

Galaktoboureko · 16/10/2022 23:15

Why are you skipping the points of OP being touched unnecessarily and deliberately?

Why are you skipping the fact that I'm replying to a post discussing his probable hidden disability? And why are you embellishing the story with 'deliberate' touching when the OP just said he sat 'too close for comfort'.

The 'fidgeting' bit would make most people suspect he was in some way disabled, which is why the other woman called out OPs prejudice in a situation where women would normally try and help another if the man seemed genuinely threatening.

Novum · 16/10/2022 23:16

It's very easy to tell the difference and we should not be telling other women to ignore their own instincts ever. It's naive in the extreme and could be dangerous. The OP is in a much better position to judge this man than anyone else on this thread. And I trust her judgement much more than yours or any of the other apologists.

I'm not apologising for anything, but I tend to base my views on evidence rather than feelings. I've travelled on the tube all my life and I too have had my share of creepy encounters. The trouble is that nothing OP has said makes it clear that that's what this was, as opposed to someone being a bit too nosy - and I've encountered that one too, from women. OP says she's from the countryside and it's not too clear that she is used to the reality of travelling by tube when, even sitting down, you will almost inevitably be touching the person next to you unless you are child size, and personal space isn't really a thing.

Galaktoboureko · 16/10/2022 23:17

Novum · 16/10/2022 23:10

OP doesn't say that the man was manspreading arms or legs.

Show quote history

Maybe OP is a larger lady and can't fit in the seat properly.

(sorry, I'm a bit tipsy. 😂).

RisingSunn · 16/10/2022 23:23

I would have just casually said ‘some pics from an event’ and kept scrolling…

I don’t know, maybe because I was born and raised in London, I don’t find what he did/said that out there..

ArabellaScott · 16/10/2022 23:30

Cannot believe people are still here chastising a woman for dealing assertively with a man invading her personal space. I suspect some of them have reasons.

We should all be so rude.

MyrtlethePurpleTurtle · 17/10/2022 01:59

Novum · 16/10/2022 23:10

OP doesn't say that the man was manspreading arms or legs.

Show quote history

She does in one of her follow on posts in which the man’s behaviour becomes more and more egregious

Goosygandy · 17/10/2022 04:13

Novum · 16/10/2022 23:16

It's very easy to tell the difference and we should not be telling other women to ignore their own instincts ever. It's naive in the extreme and could be dangerous. The OP is in a much better position to judge this man than anyone else on this thread. And I trust her judgement much more than yours or any of the other apologists.

I'm not apologising for anything, but I tend to base my views on evidence rather than feelings. I've travelled on the tube all my life and I too have had my share of creepy encounters. The trouble is that nothing OP has said makes it clear that that's what this was, as opposed to someone being a bit too nosy - and I've encountered that one too, from women. OP says she's from the countryside and it's not too clear that she is used to the reality of travelling by tube when, even sitting down, you will almost inevitably be touching the person next to you unless you are child size, and personal space isn't really a thing.

I use evidence + feelings. Feelings are not just some fluffy, redundant notion. They developed to provide us with information to help us survive. Quite often it's feelings that have got me out of dangerous situations because we're often socialised to be polite above all other things.

I've travelled on the tube all my life too.

I disagree that what the OP says doesn't suggest it was creepy. The sitting too close to her, fidgeting, looking over her shoulder and then commenting, together indicate creepiness. She doesn't have to be certain beyond reasonable doubt, it's not a court of law, she just has to have concerns. It's very patronising of you to dismiss her as some naive person from the countryside who doesn't understand how the tube works. It's easy to tell the difference between someone who can't avoid touching you to someone being deliberately intrusive.

Liz1tummypain · 17/10/2022 07:41

ToooMuchToDo · 16/10/2022 23:14

This.

I think you were rude.

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This.

Incidentally I haven't joked on this subject in anything I've said.

Goosygandy · 17/10/2022 08:06

Liz1tummypain · 17/10/2022 07:41

This.

Incidentally I haven't joked on this subject in anything I've said.

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Oh well, if you say that's what we should do, obviously that's the clincher 🙄.

Despite the women who've said it made the situation worse.

I see you're trying to get the last word, then! 🤣

LouDeLou · 17/10/2022 11:42

Galaktoboureko · 16/10/2022 22:27

Apparently the OP who threw a public strop when spoken to.

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Perhaps you misunderstood - I meant who gives a fuck if he had a hidden disability. Do you just turn off your danger radar "just in case" someone doesn't understand societal norms? No way. If he DID have a disability, perhaps if he gets told back off aggressively enough he'll soon realise he shouldn't do that and won't invade some other poor woman's space.

Galaktoboureko · 17/10/2022 13:29

Perhaps you misunderstood - I meant who gives a fuck if he had a hidden disability.

Well, honestly, who really gives a fuck if OP is so traumatised by being asked a question that she had to flounce off and create a dramatic thread on here.

The other women in the carriage didn't seem very bothered and actually thought she was rude. That's very telling.

Shodan · 17/10/2022 14:01

The other women in the carriage didn't seem very bothered and actually thought she was rude. That's very telling.

It's not at all 'telling'- although you're clearly hoping it's the 'gotcha' statement that will prove you're right.

It just means that they felt the same way as some of the people on this thread. People with poor boundaries. People who are desperately keen to be seen to 'Be Kind'. People who believe themselves to be so streetwise and cool.

It's irrelevant what other people think they would have said or done. In the moment, the OP felt uncomfortable enough to assert her boundaries. Firmly. Not rudely. (although it's shocking how many people equate firmness with rudeness, when it comes from a woman).

As a PP said- we should all be so 'rude'.

ToooMuchToDo · 17/10/2022 14:13

I hate it when people are rude to people for no good reason. Someone makes a comment, it's polite to be nice back. If you feel uncomfortable you can politely and subtly get up and move away. There is no need for rudeness.

Why can't people just be nice. Smile. Why the need for rudeness. Glad I never dared to smile, say hi or make comment to you OP.

ToooMuchToDo · 17/10/2022 14:14

Galaktoboureko · 17/10/2022 13:29

Perhaps you misunderstood - I meant who gives a fuck if he had a hidden disability.

Well, honestly, who really gives a fuck if OP is so traumatised by being asked a question that she had to flounce off and create a dramatic thread on here.

The other women in the carriage didn't seem very bothered and actually thought she was rude. That's very telling.

Agree

TwoTowels · 17/10/2022 14:25

PlinkPlonkFizz · 15/10/2022 19:47

What if you DO look someone in the eye....so what???

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If you look at them, that is their invitation to engage.

Goosygandy · 17/10/2022 14:29

Galaktoboureko · 17/10/2022 13:29

Perhaps you misunderstood - I meant who gives a fuck if he had a hidden disability.

Well, honestly, who really gives a fuck if OP is so traumatised by being asked a question that she had to flounce off and create a dramatic thread on here.

The other women in the carriage didn't seem very bothered and actually thought she was rude. That's very telling.

Except she wasn't traumatised. She was pissed off, which she is entitled to be.

And given the number of women defending the creepy bloke, I'm not at all surprised there are women in real life that defended him. I've had women defend the guy when I was physically assaulted in the office. Like you, they couldn't believe the account of a woman over a man. It means nothing.

Goosygandy · 17/10/2022 14:29

Shodan · 17/10/2022 14:01

The other women in the carriage didn't seem very bothered and actually thought she was rude. That's very telling.

It's not at all 'telling'- although you're clearly hoping it's the 'gotcha' statement that will prove you're right.

It just means that they felt the same way as some of the people on this thread. People with poor boundaries. People who are desperately keen to be seen to 'Be Kind'. People who believe themselves to be so streetwise and cool.

It's irrelevant what other people think they would have said or done. In the moment, the OP felt uncomfortable enough to assert her boundaries. Firmly. Not rudely. (although it's shocking how many people equate firmness with rudeness, when it comes from a woman).

As a PP said- we should all be so 'rude'.

This!

Goosygandy · 17/10/2022 14:36

Galaktoboureko · 16/10/2022 23:15

Why are you skipping the points of OP being touched unnecessarily and deliberately?

Why are you skipping the fact that I'm replying to a post discussing his probable hidden disability? And why are you embellishing the story with 'deliberate' touching when the OP just said he sat 'too close for comfort'.

The 'fidgeting' bit would make most people suspect he was in some way disabled, which is why the other woman called out OPs prejudice in a situation where women would normally try and help another if the man seemed genuinely threatening.

I trust the OP who was there, better than you, who was not to know whether the man was getting inappropriately and deliberately close to her. In real life you can tell if someone the difference between someone who is creepy or disabled. It's just the usual MN red herring to put women back in their place. No man can possibly be annoying, intrusive, creepy, they all have to have a hidden disability 🙄.

Women do not normally try and help each other out if a man is genuinely threatening. In fact in all the cases when it's happened to me they and the men have looked the other way, out of the window, studying their shoes etc.

vivainsomnia · 17/10/2022 14:41

As a PP said- we should all be so 'rude'
Unless of course someone dares to be ruled to them having misinterpreted their intention.

That if course becomes totally unacceptable and deserving of a thread 'why did that guy thought it was ok to be so rude to me just because he thought I was going to take his place when I wasn't'

Shodan · 17/10/2022 14:42

probable hidden disability

Oh ffs.

The message you're putting across is:

Women! Ignore your discomfort! Make excuses for men's poor behaviour lest you be thought of as RUDE! I'm a much nicer person than you. See how kind and caring I am. Not towards women though. Only men.

Worktop · 17/10/2022 14:47

JudithHarper · 11/10/2022 18:46

If you deem your pictures private, don't look at them in a public place.

Fucking hell.

Don't go out in public at all, eh?

Worktop · 17/10/2022 14:54

ToooMuchToDo · 17/10/2022 14:13

I hate it when people are rude to people for no good reason. Someone makes a comment, it's polite to be nice back. If you feel uncomfortable you can politely and subtly get up and move away. There is no need for rudeness.

Why can't people just be nice. Smile. Why the need for rudeness. Glad I never dared to smile, say hi or make comment to you OP.

There was very good reason for the OP to react that way, the bloke made OP uncomfortable. It wasn't rude, she was setting her boundary.

She did not invite conversation; he was very rude in asking about her personal pictures, like a "I'm watching you" vibe, so he clearly doesn't respect boundaries.

If he was a decent person, he would have immediately apologised.