Bizarre incident on train...

[Redqueenheart]

I had a rather unpleasant experience on my way home today on the London tube and I wonder how other people would have reacted.

I was sitting in a tube carriage and looking at images and videos I had taken from an art exhibition I visited earlier. Was really tired and just wanted to mine my own business.

A man comes in and seats next to me, fidgeting and getting a bit too close for comfort. I ignore him.

He then asks me ''What is that?''. I realise he is now looking at my phone and expects me to tell him what the picture I am looking at is.

I snap back ''That is my phone and there is something called privacy''.

To my surprise two young women who were sitting on the other said of me get involved and say ''that was rude, he was only asking you a question''.

At that point I had enough and said something in the line of ''My pictures are private and none of your business'' and moved to a different seat on the other side of the train. Heard the girls snigger but there was no more interaction after that.

I really don't get why on earth the guy thought it was OK to barge into my space and then start staring at my phone and demand my attention and why these two women actually thought it appropriate to defend him...

Afterwards I did ask myself if this was an attempt to distract me while one them would try to get something from my bag but even as it stands I was absolutely furious about these people's behaviour.

I am quite curious to hear how other people would have reacted.

My first thought was he may have SN/not be neurotypical. And there are ways of responding more neutrally if someone is bothering you which reduces the risk of an aggressive response if you’re a woman travelling alone.
A stranger complimented my knitting on the tube yesterday and I ended up asking him what he did to relieve stress - surfing! (A bit trickier in c.London)

A man comes in and seats next to me, fidgeting and getting a bit too close for comfort. I ignore him.

I don't get what is "too close for comfort" in the context of the tube. Those seats are small and close together so that as soon as you sit down you are shoulder to shoulder and can see what is on someone's phone or in their book or magazine just by turning your head. You really can't be precious about personal space if you travel on the London Underground.

I'm really 😱 at all the people saying you were rude tbh. He was reading your phone, which is bad enough but then to be so blatant by questioning you about it?! Huge red flag, entitled creep. I'd have felt exceptionally uncomfortable in the same situation and because I'm ND, would have been far more snarky in my response. You absolutely weren't in the wrong here.

I'm finding the people bringing gender into this interesting. Would it have been more acceptable for a woman to be sitting next to OP? Less acceptable if OP had been rude to a woman and it was a woman who was sitting next to her asking about the photo?

I find it fascinating how a man asking such a simple question can be turned into him being a sex pest invading someones personal space when they are sat on public transport. It's kinda incredible that no one can just talk to someone anymore.
I think the girls response is amazing because we should always highlight people being unnecessarily rude to someone and I hope they would have done the same if the man was actually rude to the OP.

OP was right to move a way if uncomfortable but I don't see the need to be unnecessarily rude to anyone be it male or fema

Fighting rude with rude just makes the world more rude. However I have a short temper so would have probably said something similar. However as an educator I've found if you want to change the behaviour of people it's best to engage with the behaviour but without judgement. That being said after teaching all day I am not always up for extra work.

There are several empty seats on her right but man decides to seat really close to woman.

Hell of a drip feed there, hours after this thread started. Did the women who were sitting next to you previously also decide to sit really close to a woman? Or did all concerned just use the seats provided?

He wasn't reading anything.

Because no woman could possibly ever have a pleasant interaction with a complete stranger. 😂 They're all waiting to throw you in the back of a van.

Ditto. ^This.

As a Londoner, I smile and talk to many people as I go about my day. Some people appreciate a good natter, while others obviously don't want to talk or automatically 'think you are after something.' Some people get totally the wrong impression, I remember once a man telling me that his hotel room was 5 minutes away and if I wanted to come back! I laughed, and told him that I had something else to do, but thanks. Clearly, if someone doesn't want to talk, then I leave them alone.

On the whole, most people are friendly and kind, and like that someone has shown interest and appreciate social interaction. After all, humans are social animals. A little chat often brings a smile to a face and makes people feel less alone, especially if they are alone.

I'm often the woman, you see crouched down in the street talking to homeless people. I will offer to get them a sandwich or a bottle of water. I don't give money. Sometimes all they want to do is talk or are grateful that someone has stopped to acknowledge them and that they are there.

I do think it is sad as I get older (I'm 55) that people seem to be more taciturn, suspicious, colder, even hostile. I do find it funny how some people get affronted if you so much as say good morning and smile at them! It's sad, very sad. I doesn't have to be a cold world.

Personally, you could have been more gracious and said something like, 'It's been a long day and I would just like a moment to myself." rather than getting your knickers in a twist. I think the girls probably thought you were over reacting.

There's a lot of hostility in some of these responses.

Whenever I hear someone say, 'London is such a cold place' I always ask them how many people they talked to that day.

@Charlize43 that's lovely

Exactly this.

I read through every response on this thread last night and tbh many comments freaked me out! I have to assume some of the posters are fake as surely no one honestly thinks the OP acted unreasonably. Nuts.

I would rather me and my DD and all my other female relatives be perceived as rude if it means avoiding potentially threatening situations. Who knows if this was one of those situations, we weren't there, but why take the risk, ever!

I don't think you can expect to entirely be in your own bubble, on public transport? There may be an 'unwritten rule' about not engaging with fellow passengers but it's not beyond belief that someone would perhaps want to engage in chit chat?

It seemed like a harmless question to which you overreacted. You could have easily made a short but sweet comment that answered his question but made it clear you didn't want to get into a conversation.

I took that to mean being unnecessarily close. So yes the tube seats are small, but you actively try to not have your legs and arms touching the person next to you, for example. I've had plenty of men ignore this and manspread their arms and legs into my space. It's ignorant at best, deliberate at worst. And I'm pretty certain they don't do it to other men.

There is clearly a difference between someone who is invading your space and someone who is just sitting there. The OP is perfectly able to judge this.

If you have never experienced this on public transport in London then you're very lucky (if you indeed live here or have used it regularly as a young woman). The man who put his hand on my knee when I was twelve years old wasn't just using the seats available. The guy who followed me home and then walked after me to wank round the corner late at night wasn't just minding his business on his journey home. The guy who walked up behind me and put his hand up my skirt wasn't being sociable. The numerous drunk guys who engaged me in conversation, and wouldn't say no weren't just being friendly.

It's very easy to tell the difference and we should not be telling other women to ignore their own instincts ever. It's naive in the extreme and could be dangerous. The OP is in a much better position to judge this man than anyone else on this thread. And I trust her judgement much more than yours or any of the other apologists.

Random man disregards a woman's physical and social boundaries for his own reasons. The woman doesn't immediately be kiiinndd or allow the man to behave as he wishes as the woman knows she is not random man's support human.

Redqueenheart more power to you for not buying into the wretched rules of misogyny - and no, you were not rude.

Too many people with their heads stuck in their phones today. Talk to people around you.

No.

You do know the statistics for domestic abuse, domestic murder and violent crimes against women don't you? Men are by far the biggest threat to a woman's safety than another woman would ever be.

I have a lovely husband who would never dream of making a woman uncomfortable. That doesn't mean I'm naive about some men's behaviour towards women.

I used to live in London. There’s a massive difference between someone talking to you on a bus in Yorkshire, to someone talking to you on the tube. The latter is full of thieves and crazies. If some random bloke comes up to you on the tube, it’s a problem, he’s not there for a nice chat. Also, if you are in trouble on the tube, you’re on your own. As mentioned upthread, people just avert their eyes. Rarely will you get help.

OP you did right to assert yourself. I do think tube stalkers are better dealt with by a) totally avoiding all eye contact with anyone who looks slightly off axle, and be a quick polite smile, close phone and move. It’s not worth engaging.

This

So not only did OP have to not be rude, she also had to smile.
Are we living in the same world? Since when do women have to rearrange their own face to please a man, not even a man we know, just any man who might look at us. Ffs I agree with a pp . The MRA are among us right now.

@onlythreenow yes if my 12 year old daughter was travelling alone and a strange man looked at her phone and asked her about it, I would say she'd feel threatened. If "be polite" was upmost in her mind, I would not think I had raised her right.

🤭

I wouldn’t have engaged and I would have moved if I felt uncomfortable. But I don’t particularly like being disturbed on transport.

But there’s no right or wrong answers.
Theres nothing wrong with what you did. Equally it was a public place and your phone was visible and he could ask you that if he wanted to. It’s not illegal to start a conversation.

Glad to be a Londoner and not 'country side' to be honest.
In my 25+ years in the UK I have been more harassed in the countryside and told to go back to where I came from and that at least I was the right kind of foreigner... in London most people respect each other

So what if we are considered rude, but at least we respect boundaries.

@Redqueenheart i would have done the same as you and have moved seats on the tube and have even shock horror told people in supermarket queues to think about blooming personal space for god's sake when they were on top of me while I was trying to bag and pay for my stuff... (ie i had gone to the end to bag stuff then had to step back to the card machine and there were already there)