Bizarre incident on train...

[Redqueenheart]

I had a rather unpleasant experience on my way home today on the London tube and I wonder how other people would have reacted.

I was sitting in a tube carriage and looking at images and videos I had taken from an art exhibition I visited earlier. Was really tired and just wanted to mine my own business.

A man comes in and seats next to me, fidgeting and getting a bit too close for comfort. I ignore him.

He then asks me ''What is that?''. I realise he is now looking at my phone and expects me to tell him what the picture I am looking at is.

I snap back ''That is my phone and there is something called privacy''.

To my surprise two young women who were sitting on the other said of me get involved and say ''that was rude, he was only asking you a question''.

At that point I had enough and said something in the line of ''My pictures are private and none of your business'' and moved to a different seat on the other side of the train. Heard the girls snigger but there was no more interaction after that.

I really don't get why on earth the guy thought it was OK to barge into my space and then start staring at my phone and demand my attention and why these two women actually thought it appropriate to defend him...

Afterwards I did ask myself if this was an attempt to distract me while one them would try to get something from my bag but even as it stands I was absolutely furious about these people's behaviour.

I am quite curious to hear how other people would have reacted.

I could never be that rude. Maybe it’s a London thing 🫢

It’s nice to be nice.

I can't believe that people think the op was unreasonable. She has no obligation to some strange bloke to smile at him and answer politely about the content on her own phone. It's him that needs to find some manners and boundaries. Not her. Some really people need to give their heads a wobble. 🤨

I find it fascinating how a man asking such a simple question can be turned into him being a sex pest invading someones personal space when they are sat on public transport. It's kinda incredible that no one can just talk to someone anymore. Totally agree. It's as if real life interactions with strangers are no longer acceptable in any real life way. Heck that person could have become a friend. You can usually get a 'vibe' from people that would temper the response.

I've encountered way too many weird men in public places who try and lure you in with a "nice" conversation that you feel like you can't politely get out of as a lead-in to a situation that feels much more uncomfortable to give any man on a train the benefit of the doubt.

Yes, he might have been neurodivergent. It's also just as likely that he was a plain old weirdo.

Women's safety is NOT more important than men's feelings.

The women calling you rude (on the train and in this thread) are exceptionally naive. And I truly hope for their sakes they never learn why the hard way.

I find the idea of not bringing gender into it astonishing. Many women (particularly of a certain age and shape) have to navigate unwanted interactions from men daily. All of us have a complete right to reject interactions we don't invite and aren't interested in, no one has an obligation to "be kind" to avoid hurting the feelings of people (men) too entitled to read the leave me alone body language. It's kinda incredible anyone can be so dense they don't realise this.

As for the girls, I do agree we should be amazed at their response but not for the ridiculous reason you offer.

I don’t think you can rely on statistics for this situation. Saying ‘any man who approaches a women on the tube should be treated as if they are going to assault her because statistically more men are convicted for domestic abuse and violent crime’ is like saying ´any woman who goes for a job is less likely to do well cause statistically more men are in high powered leadership roles’
it just doesn’t make sense and there are so many more factors at play in those statements than just the subjects stated. Labelling everyone who makes a friendly comment on the tube as a ‘sex pest’ just because they fit the stats is a bit prejudiced imo.

I think this 100% was a distraction scam and the girls were in on it. They were using the method of female social conditioning to undermine you @Redqueenheart

we have no requirement to be polite to those who are rude. He was in your space and was rude. You know what it was and there’s no need to doubt how you reacted.

I wonder if women regularly invade mens fora to disrupt and insult?

OP your response was 100% the right one.

He wasn't just trying to make polite conversation, he was invading your privacy by reading your phone. It's like butting into the conversation between 2 strangers with your opinion, just because you can hear it. An adult being polite would notice someone was engrossed in something and leave them alone. Someone sitting alone and makes eye contact with them - yes, you can start a conversation (not reading their phone). Someone isn't making eye contact and doing something - not interested in conversation.This is how so many people get conned and robbed, thinking that once you're an adult you don't need to be wary of strangers being weird

You don't owe adults with no concept of personal space any politeness. Unless it was obvious he had learning difficulties or was on the spectrum, he should know when/how to start conversation. Even more baffled by the women tbh.

Some odd comments here about people being Londoners and still not being rude. There's plenty of Londoners who have the same problems with assertiveness, and not reading creepy behaviour properly - that others in the country do.

Exactly right.

Strange thing is, it's women telling other women they're paranoid, impolite, misandrist, and live their lives in terror of every man, when in fact some of us are merely leery of them in certain situations because, statistically, they are more of a threat to us than other women. This isn't paranoia. It's basic common sense, and I'd bet you anything you like most of us risk-assess on a daily basis without even necessarily being aware we're doing it.

I have a novel suggestion: stop encouraging other women to ignore their gut instincts. They are there for a reason. The price of being wrong is that someone comes across to another person as abrupt (not rude; the interloper is the one who was rude). The price of being right, and ignoring those instincts, doesn't need much spelling out.

In sum. You can stuff your #BeKind.

😂

Ok I'm going to ask a general question again because no-one has answered yet. Would anyone on here approach a complete stranger on the tube and ask them what they were looking at on their phone? Do you consider this normal friendly behaviour? Some must surely, judging by the replies.

I find it fascinating how a man asking such a simple question can be turned into him being a sex pest invading someones personal space when they are sat on public transport. It's kinda incredible that no one can just talk to someone anymore.

It's because the simple fact is that that is most women's experience with MOST men acting in that way.

Looking over anybody's shoulder while they're on the phone is generally considered a bit intrusive at best, even your spouse or best mate, let alone a complete stranger on the tube, and this breach of one social norm sets off alarm bells to make you wonder what other social norms this man is willing to breach.

(And yes, it is a gendered thing. Come on, please don't pretend you think a woman approaching you in public might try and sexually assault you or follow you home. Don't be disingenuous.)

If you've never encountered such behaviour from men in public and you are a woman yourself then count yourself extremely lucky and pray it never happens to you, but please do not criticise other women for taking steps to protect our own safety based on our (many) past experiences.

Jesus Christ. Please tell me you can see the difference.

If a strange man approaches me on a train, I don't have the time or resources (or obligation) to subject him to a thorough interview process, check references, do background checks, check his qualifications etc.

An entire demographic of society will not find themselves economically and socially disadvantaged and disempowered if I refuse to engage in a conversation with a strange man on the train.

And in most cases no one will end up raped or murdered if a woman is selected for a role she turns out to be a bit crap at.

Don’t be ridiculous. Being in a public place does not make one public property. Social norms call for respect for people when sharing public transport.

I might have been less abrupt in my response, OP, but that’s possibly because I lack a certain level of assertion that you don’t. You did the right thing and ultimately got the result you were after, which was time to yourself to browse your own pictures in peace. Not a crime or unreasonable.

He could have opened more politely, such as ‘excuse me, hope you don’t mind my asking, but what is that? ‘ He assumed he had a right to ask, he doesn’t. If he had been polite, you maybe may have felt less annoyed and responded better.

I still think if the guy had been a fit hunk, with gorgeous piercing eyes and a smile worth starring in a Colgate advert, the response would have been very different.

I've encountered way too many weird men in public places who try and lure you in with a "nice" conversation that you feel like you can't politely get out of as a lead-in to a situation that feels much more uncomfortable to give any man on a train the benefit of the doubt
That was my dad! Chatted my mum up as she was crossing the road in front of him in his nice convertible car. 2 years later and here I was!

We women sadly do need to be on our guard.Many years ago, before mobile phones were invented, when I was in my young twenties, I was late for an appointment once in London, there was a film crew in the street where I was meant to be, I asked a man politely ‘excuse me, do you have the time?’ His response was ‘sorry love, I can’t leave the set’! It took me a moment to understand his response, he realised his mistake and then told me the time. It just made me wary for future random conversations with strangers, men usually, if not always. They seem to have another agenda other than just chit chat.

An afterthought: trains are one space in which women have a definite (and IME increasing) problem with intrusive men, and are now becoming a place in which I'm on alert.

I've had, in the past year, a man circling me like a shark in a deserted railway station, coming and standing alongside me as though to board, then walking slowly away watched by the conductor, who stepped out into the middle of the platform and watched him go. Evidently he thought this guy's behaviour was 'off' too, for those on this thread who apparently need male endorsement that it isn't simply women's 'paranoia'.

I've had the knee-brush (plausible deniability of course) at the table seat, and I've been filmed and photographed by the man sitting opposite me. (I'm certain he had photographed me, and was almost certain he was filming me). I got up and left my seat, and would have called the transport police had he followed.

I now park at the station to avoid being there alone late at night. I no longer take a table seat, which is quite an inconvenience as I like to work on the train.

If my experiences were unique, there would not be signs all over railway carriages warning against sexual harassment and intimidation, and plastered all over with the text number of the transport police.

Women need to trust their instincts.

I have read the OPs posts and not many others... I think that it is worth remembering that some men have appalling social skills as opposed to being creeps; that you can't expect privacy when you're in public (however rude it is to look at someone's phone, and it is very very rude, you have no expectation of privacy if you are sat right next to to someone); that simply speaking to a stranger is not in itself wrong.

But, other than those minor devil's advocate points to remember that there are two sides to most things, I can't believe the stick OP seems to be getting. She knows his behaviour was off in a number of ways, and there is no obligation to be all sweetness and light al the time, let alone when you;re being creeped out. 100% on your side OP.

I suspect a great many of these posts are not from women.

I'm not sure who really has a vested interest in women ignoring their instincts, or devoting their time and attention to unwanted, intrusive male strangers. Oh, wait ...

I'm afraid I think the OP and the man (if either are in the wrong) are pretty much equal in their behaviour.

The OP reacted as if this was some unwanted sexual advance and she had to launch into full defence-mode.

(If a woman had asked about the photos, would she have reacted as she did? Nope.)

I can't quite understand why people think the OP was in the right to be so rude.

Even if this man was being nosey, or trying to chat her up, it didn't warrant such a rude reply. Just so unnecessary.

She could easily have just said Oh, pics of an exhibition' or even 'Oh, that's private'.

I notice she didn't come back to her thread to tell us what he did next. How he reacted.

It clearly wasn't a threatening situation (and yes, I've used the tube for decades, including daily when I worked in the City.)

It appears that she herself isn't that good with her own social skills.
There are times when it's necessary to (metaphorically) give a pervy man a kick in the balls, and other times when something less aggressive works.

Clearly the 'girls' (who I assume were women) found it amusing as they thought she was out of order with her reaction.

Interestingly, decades ago, my uncle met his wife on a train, leaving London. I wonder if they'd have married if she'd behaved like the OP when he asked her where she was going?

Having read through the whole thread now and all the OP's responses, I've concluded that it's a perception thing as the OP finds men 'creepy'.

Personally, I wouldn't have felt affronted or violated or invaded for having a stranger asking me what I was looking at on my phone. Is it really 'bizarre' for one person to talk to another? Clearly that's just me and I should have been dragged by the hair and raped & murdered a long time ago after spending years & years engaging with men (all types, all ages, in all situations) in idle chit chat.

This!!

This.

Absolutely fine OP. Got little patience myself with anyone, but let’s face it, it’s often men, who demand your attention.

People saying your were rude are just wrong, what you said was fine. If he was such a tender flower he shouldn’t have imposed himself on someone else in public.

Ok I'm going to ask a general question again because no-one has answered yet. Would anyone on here approach a complete stranger on the tube and ask them what they were looking at on their phone? Do you consider this normal friendly behaviour? Some must surely, judging by the replies.

@knittingaddict Nope. I wouldn't even ask another woman, because what's on someone's phone is private.