Bizarre incident on train...

[Redqueenheart]

I had a rather unpleasant experience on my way home today on the London tube and I wonder how other people would have reacted.

I was sitting in a tube carriage and looking at images and videos I had taken from an art exhibition I visited earlier. Was really tired and just wanted to mine my own business.

A man comes in and seats next to me, fidgeting and getting a bit too close for comfort. I ignore him.

He then asks me ''What is that?''. I realise he is now looking at my phone and expects me to tell him what the picture I am looking at is.

I snap back ''That is my phone and there is something called privacy''.

To my surprise two young women who were sitting on the other said of me get involved and say ''that was rude, he was only asking you a question''.

At that point I had enough and said something in the line of ''My pictures are private and none of your business'' and moved to a different seat on the other side of the train. Heard the girls snigger but there was no more interaction after that.

I really don't get why on earth the guy thought it was OK to barge into my space and then start staring at my phone and demand my attention and why these two women actually thought it appropriate to defend him...

Afterwards I did ask myself if this was an attempt to distract me while one them would try to get something from my bag but even as it stands I was absolutely furious about these people's behaviour.

I am quite curious to hear how other people would have reacted.

And yet it was the ahem 'fellow' women in the carriage (the attacked sex) who didn't feel he was at all threatening or weird and who called the OP out for being rude lol

How depressing is this thread?

OP dealt really well and assertively with a rude and invasive man on tube - the girls/women near her told her she was rude, and now loads of MNers have told her the same.

It makes me want to bang my head against the wall. This mentality that women owe men their time and attention, politeness in the face of their rudeness - even though a polite reply would have undoubtedly seen his attempts to engage her escalate, or may indeed even have left her victim to a pickpocketing scam as she suggests.

Female socialisation is absolutely toxic, and is sadly very much alive and kicking, going by the number of women telling OP she owed the man a polite conversation.

It worries me to see so many women saying this. There will be women reading this who take that on board and think twice about giving some creep or just tiresome boor the instant brush off in the future, who expose themselves to unnecessary annoyance at best and potentially much worse because they didn’t feel entitled to just say no right from the outset. Because of other women policing them.

Ugh.

And btw, it’s perfectly possible to interact in a friendly way with strangers on the tube, and I have done so many times - and none of them have ever involved leaning over and looking at someone’s phone and commenting on their personal photos or other personal information that is none of my business.

Well done, OP. You did exactly the right thing.

Great post.

Hard to know if you aren't there to gauge what he was like. Had he been drinking? Or was he just trying to chat you up? Or as someone else said he may have some sort of LD and not realise he was being inappropriate.

OP dealt really well and assertively with a rude and invasive man on tube - the girls/women near her told her she was rude, and now loads of MNers have told her the same.

I agree @RoaringtoLangClegintheDark It’s a very depressing thread. I read @Redqueenheart ‘s first post and want to cheer her on.

Women don’t owe random men ANYTHING. Not a smile, not a conversation, not even a response.

He was a creep and I would not have engaged in conversation. I don't like behaviour like that and if I was uncomfortable I would have moved.

But it's perfectly possible to be curt, unkind and direct and not be rude. You were rude from the get go.

Mumsnet is full of parents with neurodivergent children who expect everyone to accept and accomodate their children's behaviour, no matter how terrible, disruptive and dangerous it is.

But there no consideration that those children may grow into men who never learn how to behave.

You don't know he was a creep. He might not have been. Some people don't realize they're supposed to assume you don't want them near you.

I feel like I might have been a bit harsh in my previous comments. OP doesn't owe this stranger anything. I just personally would've replied curtly but civilly without storming off, but each to their own.

I do still think its highly likely though that the guy had a learning disability and that OP didn't notice as she was so offended that he dared speak to her. I say this because it's unusual that the other women called her rude as opposed to just staying silent.

On a side note, I'm currently in Crete and almost every man I've walked past whilst out on my morning walk has said "kalimera" and given me a warm smile. Each time I've wished him the same and carried on. Nothing untoward has happened so far.

One man asked what I was photoing and I showed him the picture on my phone of the mountain sunset. He said 'yes, very beautiful here' and walked off. Perhaps I should've snapped at him.

Weird behaviour from the girls too.

They could have been working on distraction techniques. Who knows?

So 10-20 years ago if you were reading a book and someone said : “
is that a good read” ( or something similar) most normal people would engage in conversation. I get that times have changed and people are generally more wary/ less sociable - however a mobile phone is not particularly “ private” if you are randomly scrolling through visible pics sat right side by side with someone else ( any more than the dreaded loud one way conversations people often forget everyone on the carriage can hear!) . He may have been just trying to be pally and engage you in conversation, or he may have been a creep/ utter pain. Either way, you have a complete and absolute right not to engage in conversation- but equally possibly a rather over dramatic/ extreme response?

I was reading a personal letter on the tube and the man sat next to me commented on it. I gave him a filthy look and said why are you reading my letter? I know I was rude but I thought it just as rude (and intrusive) that he was reading it over my shoulder. My Mum said he was trying to be nice! But seriously, WTF?! It was absolutely none of his business. Have some boundaries!

And that is completely different to the op's situation. You weren't trapped in a tube train. Honestly!

Sidling! Honestly! No one here knows if he sidled! Do behave.

This thread has made me realise just how much some women expect men to stay in on Plenty of Fish until they're summoned.

Although a train is a public space, in order to look at pictures on your phone they'd having to be sitting pretty close and actively looking(- rude! IMHO)As someone who has had their bag snatched (team distraction on a (foreign) train) by someone trying similar methods, -asking about my book, personal questions etc. I can appreciate your concern. It would be a bit much, that is just downright nosey. I got my bag back by counter bag snatching just before they got off the train.

Would he have done it to a big beefy bloke? No. Creeps do this stuff to women, because they KNOW that female socialisation (often a conditioned response to threat, danger and harassment, an attempt at appeasement) means many women often won't feel confident telling them loudly to fuck off. Many of them actively get off on making women feel uncomfortable.

No 'nice man' impinges on boundaries like this.

Get a privacy screen protector for your phone.

I am convinced that this is one of many sock accounts on this thread, all similar styles of berating the OP

I don’t think that he “barged into your space”, he sat on an empty seat next to you, I also don’t think that by asking you a question he was “demanding your attention”, perhaps he’s just a little socially inept.

Absolutely agree!

Some people have mental conditions and socially oblivious. Cant all be perfect !

Some people have learning difficulties and are socially oblivious.