Bizarre incident on train...

[Redqueenheart]

I had a rather unpleasant experience on my way home today on the London tube and I wonder how other people would have reacted.

I was sitting in a tube carriage and looking at images and videos I had taken from an art exhibition I visited earlier. Was really tired and just wanted to mine my own business.

A man comes in and seats next to me, fidgeting and getting a bit too close for comfort. I ignore him.

He then asks me ''What is that?''. I realise he is now looking at my phone and expects me to tell him what the picture I am looking at is.

I snap back ''That is my phone and there is something called privacy''.

To my surprise two young women who were sitting on the other said of me get involved and say ''that was rude, he was only asking you a question''.

At that point I had enough and said something in the line of ''My pictures are private and none of your business'' and moved to a different seat on the other side of the train. Heard the girls snigger but there was no more interaction after that.

I really don't get why on earth the guy thought it was OK to barge into my space and then start staring at my phone and demand my attention and why these two women actually thought it appropriate to defend him...

Afterwards I did ask myself if this was an attempt to distract me while one them would try to get something from my bag but even as it stands I was absolutely furious about these people's behaviour.

I am quite curious to hear how other people would have reacted.

I wish I'd been more assertive as a younger woman as I was 'nice' too often and ended up in really uncomfortable situations where I should have just told the man in question to fuck off.

This with bells on.

It was a clumsy pick up attempt. The girls probably thought you were looking at something dodgy.
you wisely moved. No further thought necessary.

I had a guy read my note pad as I was jotting some stuff down for work, I wrote “I can see you reading this dick face” and he stopped.

😂 I bloody love this. 😂

This is slightly off topic but I was brought up in a (working class, rural) area where people speak directly. I really had to work hard when I moved into a London professional environment to pretty up my communication style so people didn't find it 'rude' (or as I would call it 'clear'.)

Even now 20 years down the line I'm sometimes considered 'terse' and 'curt' despite all my 'do you mind if' and 'I'm sure you're busy but'. For example I replied to a woman wanting something I put on Whatsapp group with "No sorry, it's taken." and my own teenager said I sounded rude. WTF. Apparently I should be doing "Thanks for your interest. I regret to inform you...I really hope you get what you're looking for." I HATE IT. Speaking directly in plain language is not rude.

It's gobsmacking isn't it?

Such a low bar. So we have to experience groping or threatening behaviour for us to be able to speak up for ourselves? No wonder there is such male entitlement by some men if we expect so little and are so scathing towards women who stand up to these inadequates.

I've thought that for a while. There are so many of these threads where posters denigrate a woman for standing up for herself. It's really only happened in the last couple of years, so I do wonder.

If you think that having no boundaries means that you were brought up better then you're sadly mistaken. We do not have to engage with complete strangers with unwanted conversations, particularly when they are already invading our personal space. I hope you haven't brought up any male children to think that that's acceptable.

I have never in all the time I've been on the tube (40 years plus) had a woman invade my personal space, fidget around me or engage me in unwanted conversations.

People have talked to me when I am not engrossed in something else. That's fine. This is not what happened here.

I have experienced this countless times with men. Funnily enough zero times since I reached the age of fifty. Funny that...

It's like the 'lonely' men who only try and befriend young women in the office and never middle aged women their own age.

@vivainsomnia
''Why in the fuck should we be pleasant and polite to these men?
Because maybe he just meant well.

So much hypocrisy here. If the man had been whoever is the poster celebrity crush, no doubt the response would have been totally different. Many happy couples have net in similar circumstances. Not everyone protects their personal space like it is some massively valuable jewel. We are not that special!''

.

''Maybe he meant well'' There is also an equal possibility that he did not.

''If the man had been whoever is the poster celebrity crush, no doubt the response would have been totally different. Many happy couples have net in similar circumstances.''

The point is I don't use the tube as a way to meet men. I use it get to my chosen destination. I am also not looking for partner either...

Strange how for so many life still has to be based on providing pleasant interaction to men, no matter the circumstances or how dodgy their behaviour, because god forbid a woman might miss an opportunity to be part of a couple...

It really is quite eye opening for me to read some of these responses.

When I was a teen I engaged with random men on the tube all the time! Not happily though, I did it because I didn't know how not to. So rather than tell a man to leave me to my book, I would answer their demands to tell them what I was reading. Or take my headphones off to answer made up questions. Or give them the smile they demanded from me.

It's only as an adult that I've realised men are rude and entitled to demand women be nice' to them! Why can't we just be allowed our own headspace? I can 100% promise that my teen boys don't get asked what they're reading on public transport half as much as I did, or as their female friends do.

If men are so lonely why don't they bother other men for 'friendly chat'?

''@FKATondelayo · Today 11:46

Even now 20 years down the line I'm sometimes considered 'terse' and 'curt' despite all my 'do you mind if' and 'I'm sure you're busy but'. For example I replied to a woman wanting something I put on Whatsapp group with "No sorry, it's taken." and my own teenager said I sounded rude. WTF. Apparently I should be doing "Thanks for your interest. I regret to inform you...I really hope you get what you're looking for." I HATE IT. Speaking directly in plain language is not rude.''

Indeed.

I prefer someone who just tells it like it is rather than needs to use some flowery, never ending language to get to the same point.

I am a countryside type. I tend to call

a spade a spade and I speak my mind.

Mmm, yeah, cause nice men often start by sitting too close to you, fidgeting, invading your space before invading your privacy....

Not. Raise your standards.

You're not a country side type. In the country side people have to get along together and tend to make connections, not burn bridges at every opportunity.

I believe in direct communication. I neither go in for nor entertain passive aggression, silly spite/attempting to injure others by gossip etc, or appeasing inquisitive strangers by pandering to their efforts to approach me (decent men, BTW, do not approach lone female travellers) or ask me intrusive questions.

Some might well see this as 'rude'. I view it as simple, direct speech (and the methods listed above as craven cowardice).

On a separate post, we have:

we don't own public spaces 🙄

I'm unclear as to whether this poster is being disingenuous or not. If not, then tell women something really obvious, that we're not made to feel EVERY single time we interact in public. Hence women make ourselves and our bodies smaller, and are conditioned in 'politeness' as seen upthread.

The material point is that women are at far greater risk then men when occupying public spaces. And the reason we're at risk, is because of men. The idea that trying to maintain perfectly reasonable boundaries and trying to keep ourselves to ourselves in public is claiming 'ownership' of those spaces is so hilarious I'm in two minds as to whether or not the humour is intentional.

There are unspoken social rules about where to sit on public transport (and using cubicles in public toilets, where to sit in waiting rooms, etc.) We don't efficiently start at the front and fill up neatly - we put space between each other, so there's at least one empty seat between us and strangers until it's too busy for that, and then it's okay to start filling in the gaps. You try not to touch strangers even when it's so busy you don't really have a choice,unless you're a predatory bloke using the crowds as an excuse to cop a feel. We pretty much all know this, even if we never talk about it.

People don't talk to each other on the tube unless it's something like, "excuse me," "I need to get off here," and similar necessities, unless things are out of the ordinary, such as a train breakdown.

You definitely don't acknowledge reading over shoulders, be it book, phone or anything else. You don't lean in for a closer look, however curious (and I have been very curious at times, and wanted to know more.) We tell small children not to do these things, not to stare, not to comment, so they too grow up to be people who know these rules without having realised they learned them.

And it's okay to say, "none of your business" to people who invade your space unasked. You don't have to be polite about it (they're not,) and while it's sensible to consider your personal safety in how you respond, it's fine to decide your own boundaries there. I'd suggest not thumping someone (it'd be assault,) but you don't o someone politeness when they've been pushing i to our personal space.

The more women there are asserting their boundaries, the better for all of us.

I once saw someone looking at octopus porn on the district line and I managed to not exclaim, "what the bloody hell is that?!" This man did not need to try and look at someone else's pictures. You just don't do it. You really don't.

You were wholly in the right, and reacted appropriately.

The two who intervened sound young - sadly they’ll learn!

I once saw someone looking at octopus porn on the district line and I managed to not exclaim, "what the bloody hell is that?!"

I know this is not the point, but... what the bloody hell is octopus porn?

@Whitepouringglue ·
''You're not a country side type. In the country side people have to get along together and tend to make connections, not burn bridges at every opportunity.''

That is quite another level of nonsense....

Maybe in your type of countryside women are OK with dodgy men and describe unwanted chat and physical contact as ''making connection'' but not in mine.

Nor do we tend to describe putting someone back in their place when they are out of order as ''burning bridges at every opportunity''.

But nice try. Also I think we tend to be able to spell where I am from. You know ''countryside'' rather than ''country side''...

I’m surprised (or not?) how many people think this is normal and that’s it’s ok to not only look at a strangers phone but to comment on what they are looking at?! I’m so glad I have children so no strangers ever sit next to me on public transport 😂 and if I’m not with them (not often) I stand up!

So what is he was ND? That isn't an excuse to get into a woman's space and make her feel uncomfortable. MN is exhausting with the 'perhaps they have XYZ' excuse

How on earth was op rude. Bee in this situation many times especially when I was younger on public transport growing up in London.
you KNOW when something isn’t right and this wasn’t right. The man was too close and invaded her space plus looked at her phone asking questions that were none of his business.
OP you acted exactly as many would have. Why should women have to deal with this crap then feel guilty after for being ‘rude’. I know exactly what this situation would’ve felt like. Those who say otherwise clearly have no experience of this or are completely naive. OP you were correct.