Bizarre incident on train...

[Redqueenheart]

I had a rather unpleasant experience on my way home today on the London tube and I wonder how other people would have reacted.

I was sitting in a tube carriage and looking at images and videos I had taken from an art exhibition I visited earlier. Was really tired and just wanted to mine my own business.

A man comes in and seats next to me, fidgeting and getting a bit too close for comfort. I ignore him.

He then asks me ''What is that?''. I realise he is now looking at my phone and expects me to tell him what the picture I am looking at is.

I snap back ''That is my phone and there is something called privacy''.

To my surprise two young women who were sitting on the other said of me get involved and say ''that was rude, he was only asking you a question''.

At that point I had enough and said something in the line of ''My pictures are private and none of your business'' and moved to a different seat on the other side of the train. Heard the girls snigger but there was no more interaction after that.

I really don't get why on earth the guy thought it was OK to barge into my space and then start staring at my phone and demand my attention and why these two women actually thought it appropriate to defend him...

Afterwards I did ask myself if this was an attempt to distract me while one them would try to get something from my bag but even as it stands I was absolutely furious about these people's behaviour.

I am quite curious to hear how other people would have reacted.

No, we don't have to talk to random men, especially if we feel they are overstepping our boundaries. We shouldn't be bringing our girls up to believe that they should.

Also boys and men should know that if there are other empty seats on a vehicle don't choose to share a seat with a woman. If you need to share, don't manspread, touch, or lean into her space and try to look over her shoulder at what she is doing.
I always take a dim view of any man who chooses to squish up to you on public transport when there are other seats and tbh I wouldn't even do this to another woman.

We got to sexual harassment before the question about something on a phone.

Before he looked at the OP’s phone he sat down and pressed into OP’s physical space despite there being plenty of spare seats available. OP has been quite clear he was physically encroaching on her in a manner she reasonably interpreted as being harassment - reasonably because the world with kids being ogled and groped on public transport and half of all London women being sexually harassed on public transport is the world we live in. It’s the world OP lives in and a man who deliberately presses into your space and asks you questions about what’s on your phone is a big red flag. OP couldn’t not engage. He had already engaged her physically as well as verbally. And that is a damn good reason to be rude in response.

If it was me, I'd just have told him they were from an art exhibition and left it at that, don't engage in more conversation.

OP was a bit rude.

I've lived in London nearly all my life, travelled on tubes. There are sometimes scams like this. Vast majority of people I see don't talk to anyone on the tube.

there are some massive ignorant ableist bellends on this thread.

please stop rolling out autism as an excuse for behaviour like this. It is inappropriate and highly offensive.

And what if the lone female is autistic? I am and would have found this situation extremely hard to cope with.

I always take a dim view of any man who chooses to squish up to you on public transport when there are other seats and tbh I wouldn't even do this to another woman
I had this happened equally from women. My reaction to the situation makes no distinction.

"Feminists wants more rights than men and you should feel lucky that man didn't do something worse to you" has literally finished me off today. Fascinating.

Not that all autistic people are the same, but having worked in that environment/alongside (residential setting and educational), I have found that when out and about they are far LESS likley make eye contact or be over familar (they might when they get to know you..... again, I worked mostly arorund young men and women of all ages), and I know for sure when I see them on their outings with their workers theat they are autistic to some extent. They will usually look away, or at the ground.
The OP does not have to consider or figure out his mental conditions; he was creepy and rude and invaded what personal space there might be on the tube. The women who witnessed it will learn, in the end. Easy to sit on the sidelines and criticise (this thread is an example) - especially when there is more than one - the Power of the Plural, I call it. Or plainly, Idiots.

The poster of that comment is autistic. Are you minimising how they feel? It is offensive to suggest autism as a reason for inappropriate male behaviour.
If the OP had said the man had put his hand on her thigh, would it be OK to suggest autism as a reason for that too?

Yep, very enlightening that there are so many misogynists posting on MN 🤔

You did nothing wrong, everyone knows on the tube the etiquette is don't make eye contact.

I would have said the same and moved too.

Just this morning DH has a morning off so we went to get some shopping so I can actually visit a shop instead of online order as I don't drive.

DH was putting his card in to pay and some random guy in the queue behind edges so close he was on DHs shoulder! He was trying to see if he put a pin in, so I said, loudly "excuse me, move back, that is so rude to stand that close". He did move back but I then said to the assistant, "and you should have told him to stand back and wait as well"

People seem to have forgotten personal space now we don't need to have enforced distancing. Also you have to guard against distraction theft too

Well I'd rather my daughters be thought of as rude than 'being nice' and ending up in a dangerous or unpleasant situation because they were too conditioned not to say 'please leave me alone' to someone who is making them uncomfortable.

I wish I'd been more assertive as a younger woman as I was 'nice' too often and ended up in really uncomfortable situations where I should have just told the man in question to fuck off.

You were not rude. He was out of order, so were the other women. That’s why lots of people wear headphones on the tube, to avoid pushy weirdos like this.

If you find assertive another word for rude, you don't know what either word means. And you're a big part of the problem.
I fear for the children of women like this. You're teaching your daughters to never assert themselves and your sons to see assertiveness as rudeness. You're not respecting either and you'e helping to push them both into dangerous situations.

I find 'assertive' is often just another word for rudeness

It's just directness, but some people find that rude or intimidating. If the OP had said "Fuck off!" that would have been rude, but saying "It's private," was just direct.

I once had a man, similar age to me, looking over the crossword I was doing in the paper. Then asked whether I'd like some help to complete it.
Think it was more hitting on me but really put me off my crossword!

OP you were not "rude". He was very rude to peer at your phone photos and make comments. Rude and intrusive. I've had weirdos and worse (sexual assault) on public transport and you were right to cut him off at the pass.

It's offensive to people with autism fgs.

To all those apologists on here, please answer this question. Was the man rude to sit next to the op, despite there being other seats available, encroach on her personal space for no good reason and comment on the content of her phone? Was he? Would you have done this? I really want to know.

The poster of that comment is autistic. Are you minimising how they feel? It is offensive to suggest autism as a reason for inappropriate male behaviour
I took the response and comment about offensiveness as the action of the man, not the reference of autism!

Assertiveness and rudeness are totally different things. You can be assertive and polite. Rudeness is often defined by the tone used to say something.

You can start by being pleasant and grow assertive if the person does not respond to the polite request.

to the polite request.

This with bells on!

I can't usually stop myself from fawning or placating or sometimes freezing. It's a trauma response and it leaves me feeling full of self loathing afterwards.

It's fantastic you asserted your boundaries. Unfortunately it's not currently fashionable, hence the reaction of the young girls opposite.

Why? It came straight after the sentence about people rolling out autism as a reason for inappropriate behaviour. It was obvious what that person meant and she/he was right.

You can. I don't want to start by being pleasant to someone who has already overstepped. I don't have to be pleasant, or polite, to a man who is in my personal space, for no good reason.

Why in the fuck should we be pleasant and polite to these men?

Why in the fuck should we be pleasant and polite to these men?
Because maybe he just meant well.

So much hypocrisy here. If the man had been whoever is the poster celebrity crush, no doubt the response would have been totally different.

Many happy couples have net in similar circumstances. Not everyone protects their personal space like it is some massively valuable jewel. We are not that special!