Bizarre incident on train...

[Redqueenheart]

I had a rather unpleasant experience on my way home today on the London tube and I wonder how other people would have reacted.

I was sitting in a tube carriage and looking at images and videos I had taken from an art exhibition I visited earlier. Was really tired and just wanted to mine my own business.

A man comes in and seats next to me, fidgeting and getting a bit too close for comfort. I ignore him.

He then asks me ''What is that?''. I realise he is now looking at my phone and expects me to tell him what the picture I am looking at is.

I snap back ''That is my phone and there is something called privacy''.

To my surprise two young women who were sitting on the other said of me get involved and say ''that was rude, he was only asking you a question''.

At that point I had enough and said something in the line of ''My pictures are private and none of your business'' and moved to a different seat on the other side of the train. Heard the girls snigger but there was no more interaction after that.

I really don't get why on earth the guy thought it was OK to barge into my space and then start staring at my phone and demand my attention and why these two women actually thought it appropriate to defend him...

Afterwards I did ask myself if this was an attempt to distract me while one them would try to get something from my bag but even as it stands I was absolutely furious about these people's behaviour.

I am quite curious to hear how other people would have reacted.

It’s the type of world where girls are ogled and groped on public transport from before they’re teens. Where more than half of women in London have experienced sexual harassment on public transport.

And the type of world where people think women who try and preempt anything more serious happening are “thoroughly unpleasant”.

Absolutely this. I don't really understand some of the replies on this thread, why are some, presumably women, defending this man's behaviour? We all know the difference between a cheery hello, dreadful weather type comment from across the aisle, compared to the space invading, over familiar behaviour of the OP's example.
Why try to break down women's boundaries, it's just bizarre.

@NotMyDayJob
''I'm London born and bred and only moved out about two years ago and I'd have told him to leave me alone because I'm tired of this. I remember being exactly the same situation with a man sitting next to me, didn't need to, plenty of other seats, sitting a bit too close etc and striking up a drunken conversation and when I said (politely I was tired and didn't really want to talk) he had a massive go at me, you women don't want to talk to me, whats wrong with you etc etc The clincher? I was six months pregnant so not even being obviously tired and pregnant was a good enough reason for this man not to harass me, and while it was a quiet tube, it wasn't empty and everyone else just averted their eyes. So after that I don't care if anyone thinks I am rude because I tried being polite and look what happened.Also, looking at someone else's phone is really fucking rude. You just don't do it, you certainly don't draw attention to it.
So good for you OP, you enforce those boundaries.
Incidentally, I now live up north and yes while it's true people are more friendly, they're not virtually sitting in your lap on public transport and staring at your phone. That's not being friendly.''

Sorry that happened to you and I completely agree with everything you wrote.

I think you were very rude. Some people like to chat and you're not one of them which is fine, but surely there was a nicer way to speak to him.

That might explain why I am so confused by some of the replies. They seem very out of step with how the women I know would react.

Men's rights = the right to hassle women on public transport.

I like to chat too. I do not try to chat to people who are obviously not up for chatting ie head in phone or book and I don't look or comment on a complete strangers phone content. It's incredibly rude.

I'm sure he wasn't a mind reader as to whether the op was happy to chat. Some people would have happily engaged, sfter all. She could have just smiled and answered him. Just my opinion.

This thread is nuts.

Not you op.💐

Perhaps some of us understand that there are certain conditions like autism where people may not understand personal boundaries and not realise something is inappropriate. Maybe there could be a bigger picture. I know it's a bit of a wild concept asking people to perhaps expand their minds and explore their own prejudices a little more.....

I'm beginning to wonder if MRAs and incels are busy on MN, some of these replies are bonkers. I agree with the pp saying no woman I know would take kindly to this kind of behaviour from a man. It's like those examples on incel sites, where they post how far they can push the boundaries of women.

"Would have been just as easy to say, "just some private photos" and put your phone away in your bag/pocket."

This requires the OP to stop doing something she clearly wanted to do. Why should she have to do this?

It's more than time for women to start being "rude" in the face of unwanted attention.

And then got into a conversation the op didn't want and reward the pushy man and ignore her boundaries. Great idea. 🙄

You you have a problem reading social cues?

I can't believe the autism excuse has been rolled out here. It seems every bit of dodgy behaviour is down to autism these days. Not fair on people with autism and it's not as kind as these posters think it is. It's the opposite.

It’s the type of world where girls are ogled and groped on public transport from before they’re teens.

How have we got from a question about something on a phone to ogling and groping? Maybe he came from a more friendly society, where people show a genuine interest in other people's lives - i.e. a world far away from MN. There is nothing wrong with not wanting to engage with someone, but there is no excuse for rudeness as a response to a perfectly innocent question.

The fact that some people don't understand personal boundaries doesn't mean women should be forced to Keep Sweet and not be allowed to have any personal boundaries

He was ruder. Why should she tell him what her photos were of?

The amount of female apologists for mens horrible behaviour on this and many other threads is depressing.

Guess I was just brought up better? We all have to talk to people sometimes, we don't own public spaces 🙄

No we don't have to talk to random men in public, because they want to talk to us. We don't own public spaces, but neither do they. We do own our own privacy though.

You weren't brought up better, you were just socialiased harder to be a good little girl. Never be rude to the men!

You weren't brought up better, you were just socialiased harder to be a good little girl. Never be rude to the men!

Oh, so if had been a woman who had asked what the photos were the OP would have happily told her? I don't think so, she just sounds like someone who is a rude person. I couldn't care less if random man speaks to me, but then I don't automatically think man = evil.

It’s the type of world where girls are ogled and groped on public transport from before they’re teens
I experienced all this as a teen. That doesn't mean I assume all stranger men starting a conversation with me have unpleasant intentions.

I don't like random chats with strangers and will quickly put an end to it but I don't think that gives the right to be rude in any way. It's not forbidden by any law. They are perfectly entitled to start a conversation for whatever reason.

I will always make a point of being firm but pleasant in my initial response. Oy if they jeep insisting will my tone of voice change.

I really dislike people people they are entitled to be rude just because. Too many such people polluting our spaces and contributing to people feeling doom. Light up, put a smile on your face and be kind. It will pay off.

No idea, she's under no obligation to speak to a rude woman either. Why would she?
It's usually men though. She's not a rude person, but you don't sound like you have a lot of sense.

Why did you start the thread when you're convinced you were reasonable? Seems very disingenuous.

You snapped at the man and snapped at posters who didn't think you were reasonable, despite your having asked them. You're not unreasonable as such, you're just very very... angry. Surely there are better ways to spend your time than all this drama.

This. I would have answered in a similar way and left it like that. I hate being rude to people, but am no walkover if I think someone is insulting me.

Whatever the reason, it wasn't even the man himself who thought you were being rude but random strangers in the carriage who heard the way you spoke to him and felt it was unnecessary. If that was how your response was received by people outside of the immediate situation then perhaps what you perceive as being abrupt may not have come over quite how you thought. There's obviously a difference between moving away discreetly and being unnecessarily rude just for the sake of it. Your response appears to have been the latter, to the point even other people pulled you up on it. Maybe use private transport if you don't want to be looked at or spoken to.