Bizarre incident on train...

[Redqueenheart]

I had a rather unpleasant experience on my way home today on the London tube and I wonder how other people would have reacted.

I was sitting in a tube carriage and looking at images and videos I had taken from an art exhibition I visited earlier. Was really tired and just wanted to mine my own business.

A man comes in and seats next to me, fidgeting and getting a bit too close for comfort. I ignore him.

He then asks me ''What is that?''. I realise he is now looking at my phone and expects me to tell him what the picture I am looking at is.

I snap back ''That is my phone and there is something called privacy''.

To my surprise two young women who were sitting on the other said of me get involved and say ''that was rude, he was only asking you a question''.

At that point I had enough and said something in the line of ''My pictures are private and none of your business'' and moved to a different seat on the other side of the train. Heard the girls snigger but there was no more interaction after that.

I really don't get why on earth the guy thought it was OK to barge into my space and then start staring at my phone and demand my attention and why these two women actually thought it appropriate to defend him...

Afterwards I did ask myself if this was an attempt to distract me while one them would try to get something from my bag but even as it stands I was absolutely furious about these people's behaviour.

I am quite curious to hear how other people would have reacted.

Still shouldn't be looking other people's phones, however close they are sitting. Keep eyes off, Nosey!

I commute in London. I do look at peoples phones out of boredom or curiosity. But I would never comment on what I saw.

I’m absolutely stunned at the number of posters who think that you were being rude by failing to pander to some creep who was looking over your shoulder at your phone.

I’ll freely admit that I’m not friendly. I’ll answer requests for directions etc, but I have absolutely no interest in passing the time of day with random men, young women or someone’s chatty mum. So I asked DH, who is from a place where you can’t go more than 100 yards without being stopped and engaged in conversation. He will talk to anyone who starts a conversation with him and loves meeting strangers. And he doesn’t think you were rude either. It’s rude for a lone man to sit next to a lone woman in a largely empty carriage. It is the height of bad manners to look at someone’s phone over their shoulder and then ask you to explain the contents to him.

Next time tell him to mind his own fucking business and tell the other women they can shut the fuck up too. Might as well actually be rude, seeing as whatever you say to the creep people will judge you as rude anyway.

Can't believe this place, how do you all forget it's rude to read, or in this case view, over someone's shoulder. The man shouldn't have been so rude if he didn't want a 'rude' response.

@JulietDorney "Would you have reacted the same way in a cafe if someone had sat at your table and spoken to you?"

I certainly would.

Do all the people telling the OP she was rude not understand the concept of personal space? Or that millions of people (literally, millions) feel threatened, or bored spitless, or just plain angry if a total stranger feels entitled to try to engage them in conversation?

It's a totally different ball game from the polite "excuse me, do you mind if I sit here" in a full cafe, or a fleeting "hello, isn't it a beautiful afternoon?" if you pass someone local or whom you regularly see but don't actually know.

What if the person you're forcing yourself on has - only examples - just suffered a miscarriage; been sacked from their job that afternoon; been told a few hours ago that their cancer is inoperable. Or suffers from a mental health issue which causes them huge social anxiety or paranoia? Do you really think they'll welcome your intrusion?

The OP was engaging in an activity - looking through her phone - which would be a huge flag waving "I am not interested in other people, I am busy" to anybody with an iota of emotional intelligence.

And furthermore, all the many people on here who've pointed out that these men don't feel the need to try pushing themselves on to another man, only women, are 101% correct.

I think you handled it perfectly. Huge difference between that and a woman asking where you got a jacket, FFS.

I'm a Londoner who sometimes talks to people on the tube!

Do you talk to people who are looking down and quite obviously engrossed in something on their phone, or are you socially aware enough to look for eye contact and other body language cues before launching into a chat with somebody?

I'm guessing most of the 'goodness, you can't even talk to anyone anymore!' people on here do the latter and are just being disingenuous.

You do not owe any strange man invading your privacy any politeness! You did the right thing. I agree the girls could have been in on it too, you don't know and you don't need to stick around to find out.

I don't see what is so 'bizarre' about this. I think you were rude, and you actually sound thoroughly unpleasant What sort of a world are we living in, where if someone you don't know speaks to you, or even looks at you, people are offended, or think the person must have an ulterior motive, and need to post on a forum about it?? That's far more bizarre to me. I often engage in conversation with people I don't know from Adam. Even if you didn't want to talk to him you could have stopped short of being rude.

Good for you Op.

I would have thought that the fact that you were sitting looking at your phone was indication that you didn't want to chat anyway!

Autistic? Could mn get any more strange?

If I had been on the train I would have applauded the op. Too many women are kind when they should be assertive.

You did the right thing op and I can't believe some of the posts on here.

Jees pass the smelling salts !! You sound terribly uptight not surprised the girls were sniggering at you. Tube seats are incredibly tight spaced so of course he would be sitting very close. Presumably if it had been a woman you wouldn't have reacted this way??

Why do people think that the op should have responded to the guy's questions? She was minding her own business, not looking to chat with other people. He was in her space and he made her feel uncomfortable and unsafe. She got a bad vibe from him and acted on it. She does not owe him any sort of polite response and the replies suggested here open up conversation, they don't shut it down.
"It was just an exhibition I went to."
"Oh where, when, what did you see?"
She shut his behaviour down firmly and publicly. Good for her.

@lollipoprainbow
Jees pass the smelling salts !! You sound terribly uptight not surprised the girls were sniggering at you. You might enjoy the type of behaviour this man displayed. I don't. Also it is is ironic that you feel it is acceptable to use derogatory language towards me so easily but that you imply I should bend over backwards to be pleasant to everyone.

Tube seats are incredibly tight spaced so of course he would be sitting very close . There were several empty seats and being a Londoner who has used the tube for decades I can tell the difference between someone just sitting down and minding their own business in a confined space and a man who keeps making contact because he is fidgeting and getting close on purpose.

Presumably if it had been a woman you wouldn't have reacted this way?? what is your point? most women don't purposely invade the personal space of another woman in this way. Of course most women in urban environments learn to be extra alert when dealing with an unknown man who is behaving strangely and I reacted to him in a different way that I would have of this had been a 7O year old female pensioner...isn't that obvious?

Anyway back to the thread: thank you everyone who took the time to comment and for the messages of support from quite a few people!

@Redqueenheart Tube seats are incredibly tight spaced so of course he would be sitting very close . There were several empty seats and being a Londoner who has used the tube for decades I can tell the difference between someone just sitting down and minding their own business in a confined space and a man who keeps making contact because he is fidgeting and getting close on purpose.

Spot on. For those who don't generally commute, the way sitting on the tube works is that you sit as far away from anyone else as possible, unless you're with them. In that way, every other seat is occupied until you HAVE to sit next to someone, and given the choice, I try to sit next to another woman and avoid a manspreader, though on a fullish tube, it's sit in the first seat you get to!

A man coming to sit next to me in a carriage with plenty of spaces would make me wary and possibly uncomfortable

Feminist means someone who believes in equality for women. The fact you are using it as an insult says it all really

Tube seats are squished together which is precisely WHY people with any sense make such an effort to maintain boundaries when they're standing or sitting there. Conscientious people will leave each other alone and avoid eye contact on busy trains and buses, which makes a potentially overwhelming experience much more bearable for everyone there.

Even being caught glancing at someone else's phone screen or book is a big no-no. Which is why the guy was so out of line.

For what it's worth, I've had lots of conversations with total strangers about all sorts. There's a time and a place and a busy tube was neither.

OPs about incidents like this are always difficult to respond to because there's a lot that doesn't translate to retelling on a board.
In this case it seems 'you had to be there' to pick up in the vibe this guy was giving. We're all picturing different things, different voices, different body language different facial expressions, and anything from an accidental glance at your phone to full on staring, when we read your OP, hence the variety of opinions.

No feminist means someone who believes in greater rights for women. Not necessarily equality.

As for the OP, compared to some of the shit I've seen on public transport, count yourself lucky you got off fairly lightly.

Some of the replies on this thread show exactly what happens when we bring up our girls to 'be nice' instead of being assertive.

I'm a northerner and very friendly and chatty to people if they initiate conversation. I still think it's the height of rudeness to look at someone's phone screen and ask questions about someone else's private stuff.

Some of the replies on this thread show exactly what happens when we bring up our girls to 'be nice' instead of being assertive.

I find 'assertive' is often just another word for rudeness.

I'm London born and bred and only moved out about two years ago and I'd have told him to leave me alone because I'm tired of this. I remember being exactly the same situation with a man sitting next to me, didn't need to, plenty of other seats, sitting a bit too close etc and striking up a drunken conversation and when I said (politely I was tired and didn't really want to talk) he had a massive go at me, you women don't want to talk to me, whats wrong with you etc etc The clincher? I was six months pregnant so not even being obviously tired and pregnant was a good enough reason for this man not to harass me, and while it was a quiet tube, it wasn't empty and everyone else just averted their eyes. So after that I don't care if anyone thinks I am rude because I tried being polite and look what happened.

Also, looking at someone else's phone is really fucking rude. You just don't do it, you certainly don't draw attention to it.

So good for you OP, you enforce those boundaries.

Incidentally, I now live up north and yes while it's true people are more friendly, they're not virtually sitting in your lap on public transport and staring at your phone. That's not being friendly.

''@lollipoprainbow

''Yeah other uptight rude feminists !!!!!''

Let me guess, an ''uptight rude feminist'' for you is someone who believes that women don't owe random men a conversation and attention, who don't live their lives being ''grateful'' for any man who pays them attention and who believes that their personal space and body are their own and should not be invaded by men who have not been invited to do so. And women who make sure they stand up for themselves.

In which case I am very happy to be described by you as ''an uptight rude feminist''.

Looks like the klaxon went off in some MRA website somewhere.