State vs independent school open days

[user55875537986543]

Please tell me if I’m BU…

Looking at secondary schools. Have been to 3 independent school open mornings, 3 more to look at. Each school has sent an itinerary of the morning and a clear email so we know what to expect (really helpful when deciding if the children should come or not - not all tours have activities for younger siblings but some do).

Also trying to look at two state options but they have one fixed open evening and that’s it. No flexibility. No option for a smaller tour mid week, no option to speak to a member of staff outside that one evening.

The state schools are over subscribed and so I understand that they don’t massively need to “sell” themselves. But the independent schools are massively oversubscribed too and yet are happy to make time for children and parents to work out which school is the best fit.

Also, all the independent schools have their open days on Saturdays. Which means that most parents can actually make it with some notice.

Just a bit pissed off and needed a rant. I absolutely cannot choose a school based on a rushed evening visit without the chance to ask questions properly.

@Dixiechickonhols no, I appreciate your thoughts. The issue on that night is one child has an away match for school (compulsory) so can’t be collected until 6pm. So the parent friends who would always help me out will be in the thick of evening things with their own children. Homework can be forgotten for a night, yes. It’s more logistics. If I can move my meeting ( I’m speaking so it’s hard to move but I’m trying!) then I’ll just scoop up the children and take them all with me.

Our local state schools both had their open day on a Saturday actually. I was really impressed at the staff and so many students going in and to show us round and hear the head talk. In some ways it made it harder as I had the little ones with me as nursery as closed on Saturdays of course but I've been to two other evening ones and a private school one. All have been the same level of rushed (a bit, they have to be) but also the same format. It is hard.

If you can move meeting I’d not hesitate to ask another mum as a one off I’d certainly help another mum in the situation. Best wishes.

I do understand OP difficulty as I'm a lone parent to kids ranging from nursery age to year 6 and work full time in a busy profession. But I have found where I've had a specific question of the state schools I've visited (4 of them and off to 2 primaries next month...) they have emailed me back straight away. Eg I asked about them continuing two modern foreign languages they were studying at primary into year 7. I went to a private school open day and bursary evening and both were a bit less welcoming actually, and the open day had a full school in session which had some advantages but also felt a lot busier than the four hour state Saturday open morning which was purely there to show all departments eg a bit of cooking, a bit of a scary science experiment. The pupils got to do a bit of a task in every single department and there was a quiz treasure hunt thing which my younger ones loved.

As many have said already, you really are expecting private sector treatment in a state environment. Not going to happen.

You do come across as entitled even if you insist you aren’t. You have very specific questions regarding the SENCO provision. Contact them to ask them outside the open day. If they’re not happy to accommodate you, then that’s an answer right there, isn’t it?

or just go independent; it sounds like you need the contact time they can offer.

This is very simple. Ask the parents in your children's primary school who has siblings in the secondaries. Almost all state primaries will have many children in the local state secondaries. These are independent reviews, similar to what you get in tripadvisor and air bnb. Is that not good enough?

@Collienova except the post above your from @zippygeorgebungle shows that state schools can and do offer excellent help with open days

If one of your children is in state school could you talk to them about their opinion of the school regarding sen support? I found primary was a font of knowledge about different secondaries, having transitioned lots of kids over the years.

Sorry if I missed it but do they not also do any open mornings? There were a few we couldn't get to in the evening so I took some annual leave to go to a morning session. Much quieter and more space to ask questions

@ReadyForPumpkins am definitely listening to what local friends and colleagues have to say too

@southlondoner02 the school I really do want to see most of all offers one open evening a year. That’s it. Just seems so limiting.

In my city there are a couple of very good state schools that are lottery based. Ex independents. They have full on open evenings which are not dissimilar to the independents promo events. Although open to all (if your name is pulled out of the hat) they clearly want children of interested parents that don't just automatically send to their local school. To appeal to that demographic they have to put on open days.

The good over subscribed state in my area holds one open evening and if you don't book months in advance it is full and you can't go. There wasn't much in the way of display.

My children's over subscribed indi shuts for the afternoon on open evening to prepare and most kids are roped in to show people around / put on exhibitions.

I think the majority of state schools just don't need to showcase themselves in this way so don't bother. Its a shame they don't though as i think children learn a lot of soft skills showing others around and it generates pride in their community.

It takes alot of hard work, planning and time to have that one open evening. Schools have multiple other things do aswell open evenings for other events for children already in the school. After school sporting events, choirs, bands. All of which stop for open evenings. They also have to arrange for pupils to be available in the evening to show parents around. Alot a work goes into this, and you expect them to arrange another just because you carnt organise the time?

My DD teaches in a state secondary school, she regularly is in school from 8 am to 5.30 or 6 pm. On parents evenings, new student inductions and open evenings (one for year 7 and one for sixth form) she is there from 8 am to 9 pm. She has one of these evenings at least once a month. She also has work to do at home.

I'm not sure how much more you think she should be doing or how much her students would suffer is she is expected to do anymore and ends up collapsing with exhaustion.

I had a friend that was forever ringing the primary head and got upset that the school communication wasn’t great. She went private which for them was absolutely the right call - if you as a parent need that level of service you have to pay for it sadly.

@Plumbear2 @ancientgran @MsTSwift
other posters have shared very different experiences with state schools. I don’t expect the school to put on an extra open evening for me. I am disappointed that there is one 3 hour window per year for the school to show prospective parents and children around.

You could have gone last year, I did that as it helped with working out if we would do 11 plus. Shame you didn't plan ahead.

You do realise that not all schools have the same challenges? Well of course you do or you wouldn't need to visit them. Schools in some areas have staff shortages, supply teacher shortages and staff run ragged.

You are commenting on these open evenings and you haven't even been to one.

While the difference between accessibility for state and independent is significant, you appear to have particularly inaccessible state schools if you can't get any time with the SENCO and there's only one open day.

DS' school has had one open evening and at least 2 open mornings this term alone (he keeps coming home to tell me who he saw from his primary school today!) and last year was the same. I also had a private conversation with the SENCO of both local schools while I was assessing which one would be best for him and I seem to recall the other state school had similar amounts of accessibility. Certainly, we spent an evening at each of them in addition to my private conversations with the SENCOs.

His school also does a virtual open evening which is available via their website - although it's recorded, not live - so quite helpful to review in advance.

So perhaps in your case, the independents are the way to go.

If it’s your eldest though you don’t know what norm is. I went beginning yr 5 as 11+ area and thought it would be odd but lots did same even yr4. Other parents can be very quiet about it too then you see them.
If the dc is at a prep they won’t advertising state school open events.

So, my sons state school has had 2300 people register for their open evening. Can you even begin to image them giving every 15 minutes to ask their specific questions? On top of full time teaching, planning etc etc.

Our local independent school had a sushi bar laid out for their open day.

That would be 1 place for every 10 people at DS' school. Much more than OP's 4 people for every 1 for independent schools.

Like others have said you are worth approx 200-500k to the private school, depending on length stay and how many siblings.

And location etc

So they need to make sure you are looked after as you are worth money, and they are sometimes able to make more availability so over subscribed is sometimes and a bit of a ploy to drive sales.

Open days are a minefield, and I did judge the schools on how they did them, even if it doesn't have much to do with the actual teaching quality. I thought if they can't operate an open day properly that's a indication in how they run the school. It doesn't cost money to be properly organised and use common sense.
So privates first (sixth form entry): one school was a total turn off because they did a whole school open day at the same time. Hundreds of kids and parents. Then they split us up to small groups for tours - us and another family. There were 7 different A levels between the two girls but the student showing us around didn't do any of them. It was so crowded there was no chance to talk to a teacher.
Second private: they broke the day up into primary, Y7 and Sixth form, so there were dozens not hundreds looking around. Lovely refreshments on offer. The first thing they asked was my daughters A levels so paired her with a student taking two of them, and the student found a friend taking the third for my daughter to talk to. Very well run.
State: just sixth form open but the girls already at the school were there too. No refreshments. Again no effort to match A levels. Timed for end of school day so massive congestion at entrance so we all lined up down the street. Very poorly run.
The (private) school she eventually picked we couldn't make the open day (we lived 70 miles away from all these schools). But they were totally happy to see my daughter for an informal chat with the head of sixth form and have a student give us a private tour. We were able to ask her loads of questions.
All these schools are very popular and have many more times applicants than places. But the difference between private and state open days was clear, though there were also vast differences between privates too.

@mondaytosunday thank you. It’s not just a state vs independent thing really is it. I hope your daughter is enjoying her new school!

Yes, you are being massively unreasonable.
Just send your kids to the private school and stop complaining. You sound massively out of touch. There isn’t the time or money for you to bother teachers with your questions before your child even gets into the school. An open evening, word of mouth and OFSTED reports etc should’ve more than sufficient when making a choice about secondary schools. That’s all that most people have to go on. You’re not special and therefore you don’t deserve special treatment.