Totally agree with Sturgeon re the tories

[FayeGovan]

I destest them and their policies too

Good on her for telling it like it is

I know shes hated on mn, or rather on scotsnet. They prefer the tories there, christ knows why. Independence is a dirty word on scotsnet. So i know I'll be shot down, but i couldn't care less.

Good on you Nicola👍

@derxa "You know nothing about agriculture in Scotland that's for sure" 🤣🤣

Aye ok mrs wiki 😆🤦🏻‍♀️💀 pure riddy for you.

You’re bonkers! Scotland would have exited the EU guaranteed if it had got independence in 2014. The no vote was the only thing that stopped that. Fact!
the fact that the UK left the EU afterwards is neither here nor there!

Scotland may well of carried its through its EU membership, you don't know it wouldn't have, a YES vote would have taken many years to implement, plenty of time for them to negotiate remaining in the EU... its an unknown.

Now of course, they would have apply as a new member.... with a very uncertain outcome.

Brexit is a material change to Scotlands status, they should be given the chance to vote again.

I agree with a PP, a Labour Govt, may well change how Scotland would vote in any referendum.

Well I'm waiting for your evidence for your claims. I come from a long line of Scottish farmers. Some tenants and then land owners. If you had gone on about the Highland Clearances and sheep you might have had a point. But Aberdeen Angus nah!

ie If Labour win does that change votes for those who say they despise Tories

I know this wasn't directed specifically at me, but I can answer on behalf of myself, and the committed pro-independence people I know.

Attitudes to this prospect were pretty much explained concisely by the FM yesterday morning. The worst possible scenario is the reprehensible shower in UK government right now, and while a Labour Westminster administration would be preferable to that, it's like asking if you want a shit sandwich or a shit sandwich with chocolate sprinkles.

Labour is still ardently pro-union, and many of their policy approaches that matter to Indi-minded Scots are indistinguishable from the Tories themselves. The Labour party has moved so far away from what they used to be when they genuinely were the party of consensus in Scotland that most Scots just don't recognise them any more, so they don't even carry any sort of romantic 'hark back to the old days' sentiment either. They're a centre/centre right party under Starmer no matter how much they kid on otherwise, and their Scots counterparts are still nothing more than a completely inconsequential branch office.

In short, yes, Labour in Westminster is preferable to Tory, if for no other reason than to be spared the most egregious excesses, and established incompetence of the Tory party, but Labour still offers nothing at all to sate a desire for Independence. It's not even a matter that revolves around that one issue. Labour has made it abundantly clear that they are a hard Brexit party now, and that is also fundamentally at odds with the view of the vast majority of Scots pro-indi voters.

I've no doubt that the prospect of Westminster Labour genuinely winning a UK election would entice a few more Scots to vote that way to hurry it along, we see that already in elections in Scotland with the unionist vote flopping either labour/conservative (baffling, but there you go) where there is a chance to stop a pro-indi party, but the idea that Labour in government in westminster would lead to a Labour resurgence in Scotland is wishful thinking. It was Labour in governance in Westminster that finally woke Scots up to the fact that it doesn't make the blindest bit of difference who is governing from there, Labour or Tory, they are still first and foremost a party entirely preoccupied and concerned with England, they have to be for the sake of electability, hence why that traditional vote completely collapsed and the SNP stepped into the void.

You’re bonkers! Scotland would have exited the EU guaranteed if it had got independence in 2014. The no vote was the only thing that stopped that. Fact!

This simply is not true. Pointlessly exclaiming 'Fact!' does not make it any less untrue, but 'yes' did not do a good enough job of explaining exactly why, which enabled 'Better Together' to play up on EU Nationals' fears of being booted out in the event of 'Yes', despite there being absolutely no requirement for that to be the case nor there being any actual proposal to do it.

The deliberately misleading part of the retrospective unionist take on this, is they presupposed that as soon as Scotland tallied up the votes, the next day the EU would simply go 'right, that's you oot', when that isn't the case at all. There was 18 months between the date of the vote and the proposed date for Indi, and as Scotland was fully EU compliant at the time, the EU have confirmed since that there should have been no significant hurdle to ratifying contiguous EU membership.

It's yet another unionist myth that Scotland would have been 'booted out' of the EU as soon as we tallied up 50%+1 'yes' votes. Our Eu membership was not going to end the instant we voted 'yes'.

What is your yardstick for measuring SNP performance v's Westminster Tory?

If you are going to make a highly questionable claim, it's only proper that you qualify it and lend some credence to it, or it doesn't merit any notice whatsoever.

Well she can have an opinion but doesn't look like she is doing that great a job either

Oh my God! 😆 I've been posting here for years. I'm a sheep farmer in the Borders.
I would report your post calling me a troll but best that it stands

@OnaBegonia its not irony england has a much much bigger population and she is not well liked as she is very anti english and shows it , you wouldn't have a welsh or english MP allowed to act
They are part of the uk so do fall under westminster but have a lot if say in how scotland is run and its not in a great place under the snp either
You have to have more policies than independence

English born ,living in Scotland and I support Scottish Independence. The anti English stuff was by a particular rabid Scottish Independence supporter who is nothing to do with the SNP and I believe is banned from ever joining them. Pretty nasty individual. Turned up at an SNP conference, with his stupid banner and was challenged by English Scots for Independence. Yes they are a very active group, so get fed up with people stating that everyone who supports Independence is anti English 🙄.
And according to people on here, the only country that couldn't survive on their own is Scotland, despite many countries in Europe being formed in the last 30 years , and goodness knows how many more countries that have survived splitting from the UK .
I'm a bit puzzled as to why that RUK ( I mean the Westminster government), is so desperate to keep us if we are such a drain on their resources. 🤷‍♀️. You'd think they'd want shot of us.
Personally I think NS is completely correct about the Tories, and I don't agree with everything she says, but some absolutely vile stuff has been said about her on this thread. You don't have to like her, but some of the comments here from supposedly grown adults is pretty disgusting.
I don't like Liz Truss, but I would never resort to the vile name calling that's displayed on here.

@Honeysuckle16 you don't have to have it written in black and white to show when someone dislikes someone
Also her policies show what she thinks of women and womens rights

Also has she not learnt anything about use of language from mp's and what this can cause
Disgusting

On a minor point of pedantry, Nicola Sturgeon is not an MP.

But please elaborate?

Lots of farmers voted for Brexit. Lots of Indy supporters dislike the present version of the SNP. There’s an expression “hold your nose and vote for them” for a reason. There would be so much turmoil in Scottish politics alone if independence is voted in as the SNP splintered into different parties.

Lots of farmers voted for Brexit. I didn't

@Pugdogmom but you would have to apply to stay then as your english
I have scottish friends and they said there elderly mother felt very intimidated at the last indy vote ,they see no benefit in an independent Scotland and would move to england if it happens
Its not just one person who is anti english at all , there are many that vote snp who are and you never see NS condemn that ever

People seem to have this idea that Scotland would turn into some sort of socialist utopia but the current standards of MSPs is woeful. My local MP is Joanna Cherry who I have a lot of respect for as she actually seems professional.

🤣🤣 joanna cherry is a head case. Literally the only snp MP I don't respect.

@XDownwiththissortofthingX no do your own research its not hard to know what hate speech provokes is it?
Can you imagine if Liz TRuss was to say she despises the SNP ?
It was a silly thing to say , she is also saying it about a far amount of scottish people who vote conservative
She never said despises current policies but actual tories
Its also quite sad people can only like people that think exactly like them

I don’t think farmer dad would have either if he was still alive but I do know several who did.

@Pugdogmom what other countries have split from the UK in the same way?
You can't be comparing a commonwealth country to a uk country ? Not even remotely the same

Really? Why? If you’d said Ian Blackford I’d understand but I don’t get this one.

I can hardly 'research' to try and decipher what on earth some random on an internet forum making a vague assertion about 'use of language by MP's and what it can cause', can I?

So I ask you again; what exactly are you referring to? You could be referring to literally anything that any MP has said, ever. Am I supposed to read your mind?

And for crying out loud, saying you 'despise' a political party is not any anyway 'hate speech' or even approaching anything close to it. Despising the Tory party is a pretty mainstream and widespread view in Scotland, and also across large parts of the remainder of the UK. They're also a running joke and endless source of amusement to much of the media in our former EU partner countries.

I can well imagine Liz Truss saying she 'despises' the SNP as she has already shown nothing but complete contempt. It would have no more impact than a raised eyebrow. You can watch Emily Thornberry stating to camera how much she 'hates' the SNP and then repeating it, if you like. The manufactured outrage that a politician has said something acerbic is laughable. It happens constantly, yet it's completely ignored depending on the agenda.

And no, NS has not said anything about anyone who votes Tory, as it was empirically clear to anyone paying attention she was talking about her disdain for the parliamentary Conservative Party. The fact the media have fallen over themselves to deliberately obfuscate this, and so many numpties are spitting feathers as a result, makes me wonder how gullible and easily lead the UK public are.

I have no idea what you are getting at with your last line, as at no point did NS say anything along the lines of 'I only like people who think exactly the same thing I do'.

Had to hold my nose in the polling booth when I lived in her constituency. Thankfully I wont have to vote for her again.

Even here, the 'SNP SILENCES JOANNA CHERRY!!!!' narrative is palpable nonsense. She's never off social media saying exactly what she thinks on an issue, even when it's clearly at loggerheads with SNP policy, yet there she is back in her spot in westminster without fail. The NEC plot to deselect her was kyboshed in short order and those behind it dealt with. The reason she is not given more prominence in leadership roles is entirely because of the frequency with which she openly runs contrary to policy, and that would have the exact same outcome in any political party.

It's utterly bizarre how this myth persists despite it being self-evidently untrue. Also of note that for someone who is apparently given an unfair shake of the stick by her own party, she's never once given any indication that she's contemplated leaving. But no, 'mindless SNP drones' 'blah blah'.

She's also far from the only openly GC elected SNP member either, yet none of the same gripes are ever levelled at the SNP about suppressing them either. Odd that.