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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Why do women hate an OW?

1000 replies

Oatmealbiscuits · 08/10/2022 17:47

When a woman is seeing a married man, why do people say they wouldn't want her as a friend, in their lives anymore etc? Why are they judged solely on one thing when there may be so many other positives to their character.

I'm curious really, for the record I'm not an other woman, but my friend is. It's her business and I shall be there when the shit inevitably hits the fan.

If some posters on here had their way, she wouldn't have friends and would be isolated and lonely. I just don't think anyone deserves that when in reality it's the man who has taken vows.

OP posts:
DeadbeatYoda · 10/10/2022 19:35

People that happily sleep with other people's spouses lack moral integrity, imo.

Hitatiks · 10/10/2022 19:41

@cato40

Yes you are right. The woman in that case was responsible for befriending you and all the deceit and manipulation of you in that. I agree with you.

Strawberrysundaeonamonday · 10/10/2022 19:43

Hitatiks · 10/10/2022 19:35

In this thread women have been blamed for hurting women and children, causing suicide, wives being infected with HIV, causing trauma to wives. Posters have explicitly made statements such as ' women enable cheating as men can't cheat if they have no-one to cheat with'.

This thread has absolutely and explicitly been about women being responsible not only for men's cheating but also the consequences of it. Only men are responsible for their sexual behaviour, as only they have control, and full control, over their sexual behaviour.

The OW women are responsible for 50% of the destruction of a family whether they want to admit it or not.

Hitatiks · 10/10/2022 19:45

roestbruin · 10/10/2022 19:17

@Hitatiks So you're fighting women to destroy male oppression. Gotcha.

If by 'fighting women' you mean ' arguing against women who are promoting misogynistic opinions and behaviours' then, yes I am. Women often are the enforcers of misogynistic practices. It was women who broke and bound little girls feet in China, women who sew up little girls vaginas and remove their clitoris' in FGM, women who iron girls breasts.

Hitatiks · 10/10/2022 19:47

The OW women are responsible for 50% of the destruction of a family whether they want to admit it or not

Holding women responsible for any of men's sexual choices is 100% misogynistic whether you want to admit it or not.

Hearthnhome · 10/10/2022 19:47

Hitatiks · 10/10/2022 18:53

So from this thread I have learned that some people think it’s misogynistic to say that women are responsible for their own choices

After 33 pages and plenty of exposition on this its really hard to understand how you could have taken this from the thread.

Lets break it down to a simple illustration.

Say a woman asks a married man to have sex with her. She is responsible for asking that question.

If the married man does have sex with her, he is he alone is responsible for having that sex. As he is an adult with agency and could have said no. He and only he is responsible for his fidelity, or in this case, lack of.

No-one is saying its misogynistic to think women are responsible for their choices. Some of us are saying it IS misogynistic to say women are responsible for men's choices.

Nope.

I have been on the thread since the beginning.

It Absolutely has been said it’s misogynistic to hold women accountable for their own choices. If that choice is sleeping with a married man.

It’s been said misogynistic because to say the OW is responsible for her own actions is taking some responsibility off the married man. Which it’s not. The ‘blame’ or responsibility isn’t a finite thing. The affair is not finite thing.

Visualise the responsibility as apple pie. The married man’s pie (ie responsibility) is a 12 inch apple pie. The OWs responsibility is a separate 4inch pie. The OW having her own apple pie does not require taking any pie from the married man. He still has his 12 inch pie which is entirely what he is responsible for. He made it, it’s his responsibility. The OW also has a pie though.

i suspect you see it as responsibility as that there can only ever be one pie and OW would have to take some of the married mans.

whumpthereitis · 10/10/2022 19:49

roestbruin · 10/10/2022 17:28

@Meseekslookatme 'There’s nothing to back that statement up though, if that belief isn’t subscribed to. It only has power if people believe in, and practice, that.'

There are centuries of evolution to back that statement and perhaps millions of people have died on that hill. It has power even if only one person practices it. There is no society without it.

Well yes, because people believed in and chose to die on that hill. That’s the point. Its power as an idea is dependent entirely on the belief people have in it. Someone who doesn’t believe in it isn’t going to be beholden to it.

Strawberrysundaeonamonday · 10/10/2022 19:54

Hitatiks · 10/10/2022 19:47

The OW women are responsible for 50% of the destruction of a family whether they want to admit it or not

Holding women responsible for any of men's sexual choices is 100% misogynistic whether you want to admit it or not.

I never said I hold women responsible for mens choices. I hold the man responsible for his cheating and the OW being responsible for her part in things (being a willing participant in hurting another family). They are both responsible for hurting innocent people EQUALLY.

Dweetfidilove · 10/10/2022 19:58

ViolinPin · 09/10/2022 03:46

And yes, people do talk of ow, they criticise and talk of their dalliances and speak of them behind their backs and laugh when they believe they are getting away with it, that no one notices, but they do.

I don't think ow and om are paranoid enough, many of them do a terrible job of covering it up, they are a constant source of amusement to some people who can't believe their niavity when it's usually blindingly obvious to others.

And those who are older even quantify the obsurdity and age range of the ow.

It goes like this...

You get the 20 year olds with wasters, usually with young kids that can't hack it and are unbelievably selfish, pumping iron, preening men who girls fawn over in the pubs and clubs, hoping the one night stand evolves into claiming the waste of space for their own.
Much of it is competitive, much of young single motherhood is made up of this sector.

Then the thirties girls, kids are a wee bit older, they begin to go out again after being tied to children, confident and re entering social life with other mothers who want payback on the shithead at home that left them to all the crap with the kids. They usually calm down and ease into middle age, ill health and job/money responsibilites.

Then the 40's, these women tend to be corkers, the best ones are the ones who have been supposedly neglected, when in fact they've had an affair upted sticks, divorce ensues, after which that relationships flounders. They may have their own home, advantaged parents with property forthcoming, still yummy mummies 😅The middle class mummies
These ones don't wan't a full time hubby, getting his hands on the cash, many of these advocate the FWB's but they do find it hard getting the replacement, all the decent men are taken and they are left with the circulating trash that is in the divorce pool.

Many of these are the 20's men twats who never really had family responsiblities.
So the net widens to married men.
So their only option is the affair, the work colleague, the tradesman who does a little job at a reduced price, the neighbour, the desperate.

Sometimes they do re-marry depending on social class, and financial desperateness, quite often the ugly friend who although beneath them will pop them up on that pedastal at least and look after them.
Married men who leave longish marrages and can't believe their luck they got with the 'looker bird who would have never had them when they were younger. Well needs must when you're hurtling into middle age, and fuck the wife and kids left behind she's cannon fodder, our 40's lady is getting desperate.

Standards are usually lowered and the age of the men creeps up, if they are really desperate we're talking 20 years plus older. I have seen many women like this who started out again on single life so independant and so full of hope have some real mental health issues as they steer into the menopause, the fifties and then sixties.

So from what I can see, affairs don't really help any woman be it you're the ow or the wife but then again I've also seen a hell of a lot of very miserable older men who have fucked their lives up for the fun of chasing skirt or thinking they were in luuve. Nobody wins, and as a hobby it's a pretty boring and destructive activity, you really are better with a good book and your integrity in tact because one day you will look back and see that none of it was real, it was just a marker in time.
If possible don't get involved with the destruction of family units, it's not a pleasant thing to do.
That is for all the male and female cheaters.

Holy hell 🥺🤕🙊

ViolinPin · 10/10/2022 20:12

After 33 pages, that women are claiming still not to have understood
this really quite simple point, I can only now conclude is because they
are emotionally invested in some way in not understanding it. In some
way, it serves them emotionally and psychologically. And that
continuation of that cultural belief about women, and their
responsibility for men's sexual behaviour, damages all women and girls.
And has for millenia

So what are your demands, I understand you wish to be respected in society, I doubt that will ever happen. I think the last time these rules applied was in cave men times where males had sex at random with anyone. Monogamy came into play when divisions of land and wealth were kept in lineage, it was a patriarcal system to ensue the male sperm stayed with the same woman for inheritance purposes.

You wish now for anarchy to rule over this one particular subject to satify your own needs, do you also wish for their to be no contracts, marriage is a legal contract yet it is not illegal to sleep and love others, there is no moral contract.
Yet there are laws that do cover moral laws which have nothing to do with property.

Do you wish to lose these laws, do you wish to go backwards whereby gay people are persecuted, black people are abused for the colour of their skin, for the age of consent of children having sex to be lowered, these laws are placed because they are morally wrong, it would be abuse to continue not protecting them. We have advanced, not nearly enough, yet for some reason there seems to be a lack of understanding how married women can be abused, by men and ow and yes it's a double attack often resulting in the singular person ie" the wife being persecuted, bullied and attacked by both parties. They are often not innocent bystanders, they par take in the abuse FACT

Much abuse, physical and mental has a direct link to men cheating, do ow realise what monsters men can be when they have affairs, I don't think they do, they havn't a clue going by the women on this thread.
In my mind there should be more legal protection, more help and safe guarding when the abuse of affairs is present. Safe places and support for vunerable women because the abuse I've seen more or less always goes hand in hand with affairs. I wonder how many men have pummeled their wives when they found out about their affair, because this is the reality of the family home when people have affairs. Dreadful shit and you just wan't to write these women off and say, not my problem. Shame on you, and for being so ignorant if you think real abuse exists without there being affairs, affairs cause abuse.
It's not the women it's the men, they are cunts but you are helping them.

So you wish us to go back to us being an animalistic society, sounds lovely, do you honestly think that will help your cause, men believing there should be no restrictions, no boundaries, no respect. Do you think this will teach men to be civilised?
I think women throughout history have behaved better than men, we can be wonderful, we have helped shape men and children throughout the ages, if we adopt men's stances and desires without objection we will surely go backwards as a society, as humans, we need to progress.

It goes even deeper, our care for our fellow man is what is going to save mankind, our future generations, our moral responsiblity for future generations, our moral code speads into many spheres of life, we will never survive as a species if we have a world full of humans that don't give a shit about anybody.

Do as to others as you would unto yourself.

thethreemuskateers · 10/10/2022 20:15

My ex cheated with my friend who also happened to live next door. They are both to blame, she had been my friend for 10 years he had been my partner for 18.5 years.

They both have zero moral compass, they’ve caused an absolutely shit show our youngest was 2 and oldest was 15 and in the middle of his GCSES. My mental health was in tatters.

He will no doubt cheat again when the next easy target comes along.

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 10/10/2022 20:15

cato40 · 10/10/2022 18:23

@MarieIVanArkleStinks not mysoginy 10/10 at all. Some men as well as women are vultures when they pose as friends but are no friends at all. This does not take any responsibility off the cheater, whatever their gender or sexuality. Not all OW and OM are the same is my point and I am not differentiating between man or women. Some are tricked by the married person looking for the affair, some are vulnerable themselves, some have no care in the world but for themselves. Again before you wave the mysoginy flag again, this applies to all genders and sexualities. In my experience there was A OW, but her gender doesn't matter to me, I wouldn't have been less angry if it was a man my husband cheated on!
And I repeat the husband is bustard n1! But that doesn't absolve the other person of their responsibility when they play the friend part with me.

That's different. To pretend to befriend someone whilst all the time shagging her husband on the sly is a disgusting, devious, Machiavellian thing to do, and in these circumstances does place this woman in an equal position of responsibility with your dishonorable husband. Of course you're right that circumstances are not the same, which is why assigning all women 50/50 responsibility for a man's choice to break his marriage vows are IMO misguided. Real life is a lot more nuanced than that.

In these circumstances you've experienced a horrible double-whammy of betrayal, and both parties are every bit as bad. It must have been devastating. I'm sorry this happened to you.

ViolinPin · 10/10/2022 20:16

roestbruin · 10/10/2022 19:17

@Hitatiks So you're fighting women to destroy male oppression. Gotcha.

Excellent ✊

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 10/10/2022 20:17

Hitatiks · 10/10/2022 19:35

In this thread women have been blamed for hurting women and children, causing suicide, wives being infected with HIV, causing trauma to wives. Posters have explicitly made statements such as ' women enable cheating as men can't cheat if they have no-one to cheat with'.

This thread has absolutely and explicitly been about women being responsible not only for men's cheating but also the consequences of it. Only men are responsible for their sexual behaviour, as only they have control, and full control, over their sexual behaviour.

The OP it seems expected to create an echo-chamber. The thread hasn't entirely turned out this way.

thethreemuskateers · 10/10/2022 20:22

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 10/10/2022 20:15

That's different. To pretend to befriend someone whilst all the time shagging her husband on the sly is a disgusting, devious, Machiavellian thing to do, and in these circumstances does place this woman in an equal position of responsibility with your dishonorable husband. Of course you're right that circumstances are not the same, which is why assigning all women 50/50 responsibility for a man's choice to break his marriage vows are IMO misguided. Real life is a lot more nuanced than that.

In these circumstances you've experienced a horrible double-whammy of betrayal, and both parties are every bit as bad. It must have been devastating. I'm sorry this happened to you.

I agree it would have been so much easier for me had it been a totally strange.

But I had literally helped her massively treat her like a sister, had her in my home Christmas Day, helped with childcare etc…

Extremely sly

roestbruin · 10/10/2022 20:33

@Hitatiks "Women often are the enforcers of misogynistic practices. It was women who broke and bound little girls feet in China, women who sew up little girls vaginas and remove their clitoris' in FGM, women who iron girls breasts.'

MNters having an opinion about a friend who is also an OW doesn't equate with the horrors you're referring to, but let's argue it's the thin end of the wedge.
Oppressing, controlling, mutilating women is a male idea designed to ensure male power or whatever it is they want out of it, so why not fight the instigators (men) instead of the hopeless (according to you) foot soldiers (women), and cut the serpent's head?

ViolinPin · 10/10/2022 20:39

Well if this is your idea of world dominance over men, getting one over on innocent women, I think I'll give it a miss thanks.

roestbruin · 10/10/2022 21:05

whumpthereitis · 10/10/2022 19:49

Well yes, because people believed in and chose to die on that hill. That’s the point. Its power as an idea is dependent entirely on the belief people have in it. Someone who doesn’t believe in it isn’t going to be beholden to it.

@whumpthereitis Well yes that's true, someone has to believe in an idea for it to have any power at all. Also true that someone who doesn't believe in this idea isn't beholden to it. 🙄But not true that they cannot be affected by it or benefit from it, wether they believe in it or not. No one is an island and all that.

Skydaze · 10/10/2022 22:17

Hitatiks · 10/10/2022 19:35

In this thread women have been blamed for hurting women and children, causing suicide, wives being infected with HIV, causing trauma to wives. Posters have explicitly made statements such as ' women enable cheating as men can't cheat if they have no-one to cheat with'.

This thread has absolutely and explicitly been about women being responsible not only for men's cheating but also the consequences of it. Only men are responsible for their sexual behaviour, as only they have control, and full control, over their sexual behaviour.

I never identified the affair partner as a woman, because I actually don't know. Man or woman, doesn't matter. The point of my story is my friend died because her husband dicked around while still having sex with her and she didn't have the chance or choice to consent or protect herself. That is what an affair did. Her consent, her agency, her bodily autonomy was removed from her and it cost her her life and two primary-aged kids their mother. I also didn't slag off the affair partner but did say the husband is a murderer for what he did and I hope he rots in hell. Not sure where you get woman-hating from in this, but don't let that stop you I guess?

And as far as misogyny goes, I don't think you can get more misogynist than viewing an affair as simply consensual sex, no big deal - because there is usually one party, very often a woman, who does not and cannot consent, whose consent and bodily autonomy is removed by the affair. Sex without consent is rape. And I know I would never be an OW for this simple fact - I will not sexually assault anyone or be a knowing party to sexual assault. It is also why I would never be friends with someone who cheats or is the OM/W. Both view informed consent as a negotiable - I do not. It's a dealbreaker.

ILikeHotWaterBottles · 10/10/2022 22:20

Theyhaveallbeenused2 · 08/10/2022 17:49

Disrespectful
No morals
Untrustworthy

Basically the opposite of what you look for in a friend

This. I'd feel the same if they were male. Neither are trustworthy, and neither would be my friend anymore.

Skydaze · 10/10/2022 22:31

Skydaze · 10/10/2022 22:17

I never identified the affair partner as a woman, because I actually don't know. Man or woman, doesn't matter. The point of my story is my friend died because her husband dicked around while still having sex with her and she didn't have the chance or choice to consent or protect herself. That is what an affair did. Her consent, her agency, her bodily autonomy was removed from her and it cost her her life and two primary-aged kids their mother. I also didn't slag off the affair partner but did say the husband is a murderer for what he did and I hope he rots in hell. Not sure where you get woman-hating from in this, but don't let that stop you I guess?

And as far as misogyny goes, I don't think you can get more misogynist than viewing an affair as simply consensual sex, no big deal - because there is usually one party, very often a woman, who does not and cannot consent, whose consent and bodily autonomy is removed by the affair. Sex without consent is rape. And I know I would never be an OW for this simple fact - I will not sexually assault anyone or be a knowing party to sexual assault. It is also why I would never be friends with someone who cheats or is the OM/W. Both view informed consent as a negotiable - I do not. It's a dealbreaker.

Oh and I should clarify, that pertains only to OM/W who knowingly enter into an affair. Those who don't know also had their consent and bodily autonomy removed, which is equally reprehensible.

whirlyswirly · 10/10/2022 22:48

I've recently found out a married friend of mine has been seeing a mm for several months. He's got a family and she met him on a hook up app. Hmm

Apparently he's now leaving his wife for her and they're relocating somewhere else together. The whole thing is so royally fucked up I just haven't been near her or spoken to her since. You can see a mile off how it's going to end. I've nothing to say to her, having been left with small dcs myself in similar circumstances.

We're quietly supporting her former husband, who deserves none of this shite.

notingthewear · 10/10/2022 22:58

whirlyswirly · 10/10/2022 22:48

I've recently found out a married friend of mine has been seeing a mm for several months. He's got a family and she met him on a hook up app. Hmm

Apparently he's now leaving his wife for her and they're relocating somewhere else together. The whole thing is so royally fucked up I just haven't been near her or spoken to her since. You can see a mile off how it's going to end. I've nothing to say to her, having been left with small dcs myself in similar circumstances.

We're quietly supporting her former husband, who deserves none of this shite.

You don't know what her dh deserves.

MangyInseam · 10/10/2022 23:02

Personally if I had an established friend who was an OW I would not necessarily drop her, but I would think she was doing something wrong. It's possible, depending on circumstances, I would think it was a stupid decisions being driven by emotions, and I would just wait it out.

But generally, I would think someone who was being the OW was likely to be untrustworthy, someone who would take something that wasn't hers if she could get away with it.. It would be like being friends with a person who would spend money on a credit card she found on the street.

Amybelle88 · 10/10/2022 23:05

@Skydaze

Firstly, can I just say, I am so sorry about your friend. It's honestly one of the most tragic, cruel things I've read in a long time and I send you so much sympathy.

I have to say, I have never, ever thought of it this way in terms of having consent removed etc and your posts have really struck a chord with me. I've always thought affairs were abhorrent but your posts have made me realise just how deep the issue runs.

I read one out to my husband and he said "absolutely fair comment - I've never thought about it like this but how right is that?!"

Thank you for taking the time to post on a subject that is so emotive and no doubt painful for you, I genuinely feel like I've learned something from your posts.

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