Page 13 | Why do women hate an OW?

Oatmealbiscuits · 2022-10-08T16:47:19+00:00

When a woman is seeing a married man, why do people say they wouldn't want her as a friend, in their lives anymore etc? Why are they judged solely on one thing when there may be so many other positives to their character. I'm curious really, for the record I'm not an other woman, but my friend is. It's her business and I shall be there when the shit inevitably hits the fan. If some posters on here had their way, she wouldn't have friends and would be isolated and lonely. I just don't think anyone deserves that when in reality it's the man who has taken vows.

CBechstein · 08/10/2022 21:58

Men who cheat are 100% responsible assholes.
Can we talk about our friends now?

ReneBumsWombats · 08/10/2022 21:58

CBechstein · 08/10/2022 21:57

And nor do you @ReneBumsWombats

I admit it's gone on something of a tangent, but it's a highly relevant tangent when discussing why you would or wouldn't stay friends with an OW.

And at any rate, I've never argued with anyone's choice of friends. You can be friends or not friends with whoever you want.

coffeeandpoetry · 08/10/2022 22:00

CBechstein · 08/10/2022 21:56

Whatever @coffeeandpoetry you still do not understand what the thread is about do you?

I understand exactly what the thread is about. I was responding to the sex worker subject that PPs brought up and were discussing. Hopefully you can understand that threads deviate from the main topic from time to time. 🙄

Bearsporridge · 08/10/2022 22:01

It’s a good question. For me there’s a visceral reaction to cheating. Men who cheat give me instant ick. On more than one occasion there’s been a celebrity I fancied, who turned out to be cheating and it’s a massive irretrievable turn off. They’re just losers to me. But it’s not a logical reaction - it’s much more basic than that.

I’m curious why women would want to be with men like that. Obviously rationally it takes all sorts, but I suspect there’s also an element of low self worth or childhood trauma, and in the abstract I feel a lot of compassion for women whose bar is that low. I’ve known a couple of women who were involved with married men and were clearly very, very vulnerable.

But I’ve also known a more calculating type who fancied playing mummy to a ready made family, and saw the wife as competition. I couldn’t be friends with someone like that.

Hearthnhome · 08/10/2022 22:03

ReneBumsWombats · 08/10/2022 21:56

If you don't blame women for what married men do, then a) my calling this crap out shouldn't have prompted the aforementioned bullshit accusation and b) you shouldn't be immediately going on about women's "own choices and behaviour". That's the exact kind of blame dilution I mean, and people always deny they're doing it. It goes hand in hand with indirectly defending the double standards by taking offence when someone calls it out, as you keep doing.

You're effectively trying to claim that these decisions are equal and they're not. Only the committed person's decision causes a betrayal. I can decide to sleep with a MM: so what? If he won't have me, what does my decision do?

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No I don’t believe a woman all of sudden doesn’t be some responsible for her own choices because she is offered the Chance to sleep with a married man. I don’t believe removes their ability to make a good decision or removes their bodily autonomy. I believe they are still people who are making their own choices.

and again, by saying the thread shouldn’t be here at all, you are saying it shouldn’t be discussed.

Again, I don’t want to be friends with someone who knowingly, participates I’m the abuse of another person. I hold that person responsible for their decisions to participate in the abuse of another person. it’s really odd how people are so upset by this.

CBechstein · 08/10/2022 22:05

@ReneBumsWombats you understand but you don't have anything to say on the subject so you diverse for a few pages, my bad.

Hearthnhome · 08/10/2022 22:05

ReneBumsWombats · 08/10/2022 21:57

I would view both of them as actively participating in harming someone else for their own gain.

Fine. But that also means you do NOT hold the married person wholly responsible. And you should.

I hold them responsible for their own actions and the consequences of that.

I hold the OW/OM responsible for their own choices too.

ReneBumsWombats · 08/10/2022 22:08

Hearthnhome · 08/10/2022 22:03

No I don’t believe a woman all of sudden doesn’t be some responsible for her own choices because she is offered the Chance to sleep with a married man. I don’t believe removes their ability to make a good decision or removes their bodily autonomy. I believe they are still people who are making their own choices.

and again, by saying the thread shouldn’t be here at all, you are saying it shouldn’t be discussed.

Again, I don’t want to be friends with someone who knowingly, participates I’m the abuse of another person. I hold that person responsible for their decisions to participate in the abuse of another person. it’s really odd how people are so upset by this.

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Yes, you keep saying. But all the stuff about "choices" continually misses the crucial point that these choices are not equal. "I believe they are still people who are making their own choices" is the most redundant non-statement you've made yet in attempting to muddy this simple point so you can continue contradicting yourself.

An unattached person's decision to sleep with a married person breaks no vows and causes nothing to happen. It's only when the married person responds that the betrayal takes place. They are not equal choices and they don't mean the same thing.

You are entirely responsible for what you do to your marriage. Other people's choices about it mean squat.

coffeeandpoetry · 08/10/2022 22:11

CBechstein · 08/10/2022 22:05

@ReneBumsWombats you understand but you don't have anything to say on the subject so you diverse for a few pages, my bad.

Do you understand how a discussion/debate works? Especially one that's gone on for 13 pages?

okytdvhuoo · 08/10/2022 22:12

ReneBumsWombats · 08/10/2022 21:39

The personal attack was all the "ur projecting r u annoyed" stuff that's too boring to go into any further.

I'm talking about the anti OW venom that always goes on threads like this and which you downplay when you attempt to silence criticism of it with "oh you're saying we should NEVER mention it". Or by discrediting the idea that we shouldn't enable male cheating by blaming women for what married men do.

You're contradicting yourself completely with your "I blame MM entirely but I also blame affair partners" etc. I know you think you're getting around that by talking about "decisions" here and there, but you're not. It's bad semantics and pure sophistry and it doesn't wash. A OW/OM's decisions mean nothing when a) they're not bound by a commitment and b) their decision actually means squat because whatever they choose to do, an affair simply can't happen unless the married person decides it will.

The decisions have entirely different contexts and consequences and only the married person's has any effect or breaks a promise.

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I think it comes down to – X act is agreed to be wrong and cruel / hurtful / damaging to Y person (be it being cheated on by their partner or something else). While it’s their partner who has the commitment to them not to do that, the person who they cheat with – while not directly betraying person Y’s loyalty – is complicit in that act and encouraging / condoning / ‘aiding and abetting’ it for their own benefit and is therefore morally considered to be implicated themselves. They’re saying – cheating on people is ok.

And I mean it shows a certain disregard for others, which some people find unpleasant and avoid.

It’s not saying that the affair partner has the same commitment to the wronged spouse on person as their own partner, it’s saying that it reveals something about their character and attitudes that is undesirable.

I wouldn’t ditch a friend over it but I do understand why that behaviour – shagging married/partnered people – is censured.

Hearthnhome · 08/10/2022 22:16

ReneBumsWombats · 08/10/2022 22:08

Yes, you keep saying. But all the stuff about "choices" continually misses the crucial point that these choices are not equal. "I believe they are still people who are making their own choices" is the most redundant non-statement you've made yet in attempting to muddy this simple point so you can continue contradicting yourself.

An unattached person's decision to sleep with a married person breaks no vows and causes nothing to happen. It's only when the married person responds that the betrayal takes place. They are not equal choices and they don't mean the same thing.

You are entirely responsible for what you do to your marriage. Other people's choices about it mean squat.

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Well if you have read all my posts you know I think that if you participate in the abuse of a person, I don’t want to be friends with you.

When I say ‘you’ I mean a general you.

If I was called to ds school because he was bullying a child and his excuse was ‘well me Sam were bullying George. But Sam is George’s brother so it’s actually Sam’s fault. I have no connection to George so it’s nothing to do with me’ I wouldn’t accept that as an excuse.

I wouldn’t accept it at work. 2 people bullying one member of staff and one claiming they don’t know the person, so it’s ok, wouldn’t be acceptable. Both chose to participate.

Foxglovers · 08/10/2022 22:28

XenoBitch · 08/10/2022 19:46

My friends saw me carted off to hospital for a month after I was cheated on, and the fallout from that that has lasted for years.

If they go after a married man (or one in a long term relationship - we were not married) after seeing what it did to me, they are scum and I could not be friends with someone like that. I could not stand by a friend who was potentially putting someone else through what I went through.

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@XenoBitch hownon earth can you call the person your partner had an affair with ‘scum’ just for sleeping with someone who was in a monogamous relationship?
it’s sad that you were so badly affected by what happened - but that was not her fault.

stevalnamechanger · 08/10/2022 22:29

Mombie2016 · 08/10/2022 17:51

Internalised misogyny. It’s easier to blame OW, a stranger to you, than admit to the fact that your “D”H, that you love, is a cunt and not who you thought he was.

Exactly !!!!

stevalnamechanger · 08/10/2022 22:31

Weonlyhavealoanofit · 08/10/2022 18:00

Women are subject to different rules and standards. Sadly a number of women are (on some level) quite hostile to their own sex. I never hear any criticism of the OM and there are plenty of them out there. For some, having a husband is a sort of possession, it’s almost a territorial thing. The OW threatens the wife’s status and it is easier to blame her than to examine the quality of the relationship between the spouses and the failure of the husband to be honest and faithful. It’s also true that people make mistakes and do stupid things but it’s so much easier to condemn the OW, rather in the same way that step mothers are always ‘wicked’. Promiscuous women are whores. Promiscuous men are virile and playboys.

What a fabulous response . I'm glad you articulated this far better than I could ever !

Tessabelle74 · 08/10/2022 22:53

Because I wouldn't want to be friends with someone who doesn't care about hurting other people. Simple really

CBechstein · 08/10/2022 22:58

I do understand the subject of the thread and that you insist on banging on and on about something else.
Why don't you have your own thread called Why do you blame the OW if your man is cheating, or something? This thread isn't about who's to blame.

TarasHarp55 · 08/10/2022 23:02

Because she doesn't care about the woman who's going to be hurt. I could never be the cause of another woman's unhappiness and devastation. If a woman can do that to another woman all for the sake of her own gratification then I could have no respect whatsoever for her.

Mydogmylife · 08/10/2022 23:05

stevalnamechanger · 08/10/2022 22:31

What a fabulous response . I'm glad you articulated this far better than I could ever !

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Women may well be held to different standards by many. However the question that the op asked is whether you would remain friends with a friend that was another woman . For many on this thread the answer was no as they found the behaviour unacceptable and pointed out that they would also no longer keep up a friendship with a man as the other man . To me this is that the ‘other’ is regarded as behaving badly whether male or female . The married partner is also regarded poorly , definitely not as a virile playboy if male .

Mydogmylife · 08/10/2022 23:07

CBechstein · 08/10/2022 22:58

I do understand the subject of the thread and that you insist on banging on and on about something else.
Why don't you have your own thread called Why do you blame the OW if your man is cheating, or something? This thread isn't about who's to blame.

This

ReenyRednek · 08/10/2022 23:11

katieg03 · 08/10/2022 17:55

Would you feel the same if she was sleeping with your husband or your brother in law? complete lack of morals

So does the fact that someone's morals don't align with yours mean they have a "complete lack of morals"!

ChiefWiggumsBoy · 08/10/2022 23:24

girlmom21 · 08/10/2022 17:50

Why are they judged solely on one thing when there may be so many other positives to their character.

Same reason as I don't want to be friends with racists or homophobes or people who are very right wing. We have completely different moral compasses.

This. This is my reason.

she didn't owe me anything

@Oatmealbiscuits you posted this, and while I get why you're saying it - surely most humans live ours lives not trying to actively sabotage other people, and to make them unhappy? Maybe they don't see it like that because it's making them happy and the wife is just a passing thought, but personally I think that even a stranger owes another stranger a basic level of respect. For pretty much the same reason I wouldn't pinch all the money in a wallet I'd found, or steal a car that had the keys left in it.

Of course the cheating spouse is worse as he's actively breaking vows but I think it's simplistic to say the affair partner owes the cheated on party nothing.

(Of course assuming that the OW didn't know your ex was married).

XenoBitch · 08/10/2022 23:28

Foxglovers · 08/10/2022 22:28

@XenoBitch hownon earth can you call the person your partner had an affair with ‘scum’ just for sleeping with someone who was in a monogamous relationship?
it’s sad that you were so badly affected by what happened - but that was not her fault.

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It was her fault. She knew she was seeing someone who was not available. she set her sights on a man, and despite knowing his was in a relationship, decided to go to there anyway .
she was also in a relationship.. so her own partner got caught up in this too

MytummydontjigglejiggleItfolds · 08/10/2022 23:54

@ReneBumsWombats

Well the question in the OP is about 'OW', so that's what I'm giving my opinion on
If the question was 'why do wives hate their husbands after they cheat on them' then the answer would be regarding the MM.
However I wasn't even necessarily being specific to OW in my reply. I'm saying in general we don't go round on the basis that it's perfectly fine to intentionally hurt people you haven't made a legal commitment to. That's just not how society works, and I don't understand why you would argue for it to be the case.
We all 'owe' each other a certain level of respect in terms of safety and well-being. Why would anyone want to argue for an existence with no obligations where youre free to cause reckless misery as long as you didn't sign a legal document saying you wouldn't?

Thereisnolight · 09/10/2022 00:01

coffeeandpoetry · 08/10/2022 19:53

I see the "it's a moral obligation!" crew can't seem to answer my question? I'll ask again:

Would you walk away from a job you really wanted if it meant a random person had to lose their position?
I very much doubt it.

I would if it meant a child’s home and happiness being damaged.

ViolinPin · 09/10/2022 00:04

I've never knowingly been friends with an ow. I knew an in law who was, and she eventually became the wife, the ex wife for the rest of her life was ill and severly depressed. She never gave a shit about that woman and the children, I presume she had some phychological problems whereby she felt no empathy, I never liked her, never trusted her motives and just never believed a word she said.
She was an utter hypocrite in my eyes, she's since passed away and I'm not ungrateful that I no longer have to listen to the garbage she spouted.

She would often re write history, critisice the step children and bleat on about how much her h found her to be a much more desirable partner. That his ex was good for nothing, not suprising as her mental health had been destroyed by this couple. She paraded how much her h spent on her and the kind thoughts and gestures were rubbed in her sc faces.
They put up with this to have some form of contact with their dad until it became too much for them, she was toxic as ow go, yet she was such a pious woman, who hated anyone who dissagreed with any of her narrative. I noticed most of her friends had also been ow.

So that's the only one I knew and that was enough, the only reason I kept in contact was because she was family and I was young, I thought my dislike of her was just because I found her inflexible, controlling and lacking in understanding but when I grew older I realised I disliked her and her morals and her lies, deeply unpleasant and without a concience, she wrecked lives and didn't give a shit.