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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask you to teach your boys that yes means yes

136 replies

HuzzahIndeed · 08/10/2022 08:09

I know "no means no" comes from the right place but it implies that consent is always there and has to be removed.

That isn't true. Consent isn't the default position eg if a woman is too drunk to say no, then it doesn't mean she is saying yes.

So can I ask you to teach your boys that if it isn't an enthusiastic yes then they do not have consent and must stop.

I will be telling my girls that they must give consent, not remove it. Boys/men must be told the same.

OP posts:
CatGrins · 08/10/2022 08:10

Sure.

Sirzy · 08/10/2022 08:12

Teaching “yes means yes” though surely can lead to the idea that consent has been given so that’s it ignoring the fact that consent can be removed at any point.

loudbatperson · 08/10/2022 08:15

"Yes means yes" has a lot of pitfalls.

Consent can be withdrawn, yes doesn't always stay yes.

Coercion or fear can lead to a yes, but it isn't a yes, as it wasn't freely given.

"Yes means yes" shifts the blame over to victims, if a predator continues after consent was withdrawn after initially being given, or they go beyond a persons boundaries.

"Yes means yes" is very dangerous.

ChocChipOwl · 08/10/2022 08:16

Most of us decent boy parents don't need telling this tbh. We kinda know how to parent

RodiganReed · 08/10/2022 08:17

How about not clinging on to trite lines and having proper meaningful discussions with our children about consent?

AllotmentTime · 08/10/2022 08:22

Any slogan ending “means yes” is going to be problematic for exactly the reason you’re highlighting, it implies consent as default from that point onwards.

What @RodiganReed said…

FruitPastilleNut · 08/10/2022 08:27

I so hate this type of thread. Being the mum of a gasp girl doesn't give you some kind of magical insight into what other parents need to do.

How about focusing on your own parenting? There are plenty of awful people out there both male and female, just make sure your own girls don't turn into one of those.

Mrsmch123 · 08/10/2022 08:31

So girls don't commit sexual assault.....ohhhh yeh forgot it's all those pesky boys/men🙄

WarrickDavisAsPlates · 08/10/2022 08:36

Mrsmch123 · 08/10/2022 08:31

So girls don't commit sexual assault.....ohhhh yeh forgot it's all those pesky boys/men🙄

It is overwhelmingly males committing sexual assault though.

Butitsnotfunnyisititsserious · 08/10/2022 08:37

FruitPastilleNut · 08/10/2022 08:27

I so hate this type of thread. Being the mum of a gasp girl doesn't give you some kind of magical insight into what other parents need to do.

How about focusing on your own parenting? There are plenty of awful people out there both male and female, just make sure your own girls don't turn into one of those.

This. Stop thinking as a girl mum you need to teach boy mums. Focus on your own kid.

Regularsizedrudy · 08/10/2022 08:37

Mrsmch123 · 08/10/2022 08:31

So girls don't commit sexual assault.....ohhhh yeh forgot it's all those pesky boys/men🙄

erm yeah like 98% is committed by men so not sure why you’re rolling your eyes

LaForza101 · 08/10/2022 08:38

I thought the conversation had moved on to 'enthusiastic consent' as yes means yes can be coerced. There are probably problems with this too as the concept of teaching kids simple messages for complex issues is full of flaws.

Raise empathetic boys that value the feelings of others more than their own sexual gratification is what we are looking for here, and involves hard work and many conversations. Not a quick yes is yes or no is no job-done conversation

SpringIntoChaos · 08/10/2022 08:38

Mrsmch123 · 08/10/2022 08:31

So girls don't commit sexual assault.....ohhhh yeh forgot it's all those pesky boys/men🙄

Seriously??? You can't be this naive? Over 90% of ALL sexual assaults (carried out on men and women) are committed BY MEN! 🤦‍♀️

WarrickDavisAsPlates · 08/10/2022 08:41

Op I do understand what you're saying and in a way you are right that "no means no" does imply consent is automatically there until it is taken away.

However, I do not think it's as simple as "yes means yes" either. A lot more in depth conversations about consent need to happen when children are young so that when the time comes they have the tools to navigate the intricacies of each situation without falling back on "they said yes at first" or "they didn't say no"

redbigbananafeet · 08/10/2022 08:41

Surely 'no means no' is more important. If she's already said yes but then says no the 'no' holds more water?

OoooohMatron · 08/10/2022 08:41

I'm perfectly capable of raising my son without being told by you, a stranger, what I should be telling him. Same goes for my daughter, we're all good thanks.

CandyLeBonBon · 08/10/2022 08:45

But yes doesn't always mean yes does it?
I've been pushed to say yes when I didn't want to. I've said yes hesitantly because I felt pressured into saying yes. I've said yes, then wanted to stop. All those scenarios would muddy the water if we simply focus on 'yes'. Having the power to say no is vital. No is unequivocal. You can't misinterpret no.

And yes, all my kids understand about what consent actually means. Even the boys.

Cosycover · 08/10/2022 08:48

Mrsmch123 · 08/10/2022 08:31

So girls don't commit sexual assault.....ohhhh yeh forgot it's all those pesky boys/men🙄

Come on now, you're no this daft surely? Don't know what you're trying to do with this comment but it's going to back fire due to sheer stupidity.

Freddiefox · 08/10/2022 08:49

Oh shit, I didn’t think of that before. Right on it today 🙄

Nineeuros · 08/10/2022 08:49

FruitPastilleNut · 08/10/2022 08:27

I so hate this type of thread. Being the mum of a gasp girl doesn't give you some kind of magical insight into what other parents need to do.

How about focusing on your own parenting? There are plenty of awful people out there both male and female, just make sure your own girls don't turn into one of those.

I presume because OP is concerned about her daughter being sexual assaulted/raped, that’s what this is about, and it is typically men who rape or sexually abuse others.

I don’t agree with yea means yes but this is whataboutery. I say this as the mother of boys.

Thedungeondragon · 08/10/2022 08:50

I think it is definitely a conversation that needs to be had. I have told DS that when he is having sex he needs to be aware of his partners reactions all the way through. If they freeze, just ask if they are OK and still want to carry on. I don't think it is as simple as yes, or no, it is more about being aware of body language. I think it happens a lot where a girl wants to stop, but is scared to say no, either because of the narrative about "being a prick tease" or because they are scared that the person they are with won't stop, and they are effectively safer allowing it to continue even if they don't want to.

AnImaginaryCat · 08/10/2022 08:52

I have told my children that whatever they want to do is acceptable as long as who they do it with also wants to do it. Also not wanting to do anything is acceptable. Most importantly, they sound never do anything from sulking to persuading to make their chosen partner want to do something.

That the message they have heard since primary school. What 'it' applied to depended on the level of maturity and depends on what they understand about relationships (At the start it applied to 'touching'.)

Changednamesorry · 08/10/2022 08:52

I agree with the other mothers who have told you to wind your neck in.

I'm raising my sons fine thank you. Funnily enough it's no mother's dream to raise a sexual predator so most of us put a pretty good effort into doing our best to make sure that doesn't happen.

Please do your best to make sure your daughter isn't bitchy, cruel, over dramatic or petty or indeed any of the other nasty stereotypes that get trotted out about girls.

You might also consider teaching your girls to be careful about their safety as they get older to reduce their risk of being sexually assaulted or otherwise harmed.

Before the "victim blaming" trope gets trotted out in response to my last statement lets be aware that I am raising my sons to be decent men but since not everyone is able to, I'll be raising my daughter to be vigilant and to avoid obviously risky situations.

AFS1 · 08/10/2022 08:53

I’m sick of everything in this country being distilled down into crappy 3 word slogans. It’s such a dumbing down of society. As a parent of a girl and a boy, I will teach them both about consent. And I will not be using trite, pithy phrases for something so nuanced.

so no, I will not be teaching yes means yes, because yes sometimes doesn’t mean yes. Or yes sometimes means yes initially but turns into no. Or sometimes yes is said by someone too drunk to understand what they’re saying yes to.

rageapplied · 08/10/2022 08:55

Yes doesn't always mean yes though. So I won't be doing that.

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