To ask you to teach your boys that yes means yes

[HuzzahIndeed]

I know "no means no" comes from the right place but it implies that consent is always there and has to be removed.

That isn't true. Consent isn't the default position eg if a woman is too drunk to say no, then it doesn't mean she is saying yes.

So can I ask you to teach your boys that if it isn't an enthusiastic yes then they do not have consent and must stop.

I will be telling my girls that they must give consent, not remove it. Boys/men must be told the same.

Yes means yes is the problem!

Yes can mean yes but. or yes but i don't really eat to but I feel pressured. Or yes oh I've changed my mind actually no.

@SeemsSoUnfair

The emphasis always seems to be on teaching boys about consent. We need to do the same thing with girls. It sometimes seems like people don't think that a woman having intercourse with a man against his will is as bad because she doesn't have a penis that she can inset into him. Well it is just as bad. It is the same crime even if the dictionary definition isn't rape. We don't even know the true number of how many men are assaulted by women because so many cases go unreported.

My point is, yes teach boys about consent, albeit not with "yes means yes" but teach your girls that it works both ways. Men need consent from their female partners, women need consent from their male partners.

Women and men are not the same though. Equality does not mean that they behave and are treated in the same way, it means they have the same legal rights. It is completely unrealistic & irresponsible to not prepare children for a world where 95% of sexual assaults are perpetrated by men.

I agree with you. Fathers may well be modelling the behaviour too which adds extra responsibility on them, not just mothers

Well said!

enthusiastic consent and that consent can be withdrawn at any time

This is what all children should be taught, ‘no means no’ and ‘yes means yes’ is to simplistic.

Quite.

Come back with the stats and we'll talk. Here's a for you while you search.

Why do you need stats....it's a thing....it's not specific to males🤷🏻‍♀️

I’ve got no issue with parents of girls asking me to raise my boys well. Not all parents do as the statistics speak for themselves. Not sure why people are feeling so defensive about it. The vast majority of all crimes, including sexual assault, are committed by males.

Completely disagree with “yes means yes” though. Could be used as a coercion tactic. Here we talk about enthusiastic consent. If you are not both enjoying it, you are doing it wrong. My kids are too young for the sex talk but we apply this concept to trading cards and other scenarios.

Good and effective parenting means that these messages are woven into the interactions consistently and meaningfully. If you have to 'teach' these messages explicitly (how would you even do that?) then there has been a failure somewhere along the way.

Females also assault other females as well. Those in the LGBTQ community report a significant amount of involuntary sexual contact.

I think the people invalidating and minimizing the experience of anyone who was assaulted in anything other than a male perpetrator - female victim scenario should really take a step back and reconsider their gender and hetero biases.

But the chance is, statistically speaking, that in every class of 15 teenage boys, 2 will sexually assault a woman at some point before the age of 25.

Is it really that low @PAFMO ?
I’ve been trying to find statistic about how many men are rapist/ sexual assaulters.
But 2 out of 15 seems incredible low even if it was solely full blown rape.
With sexual assault added, it has to be much higher.

Agree with this completely.

A yes has the potential to be far more damaging than a flat NO.

My son’s are being just fine thank you.
What a deeply patronising post.

I wonder what percentage of sexual encounters, which were wanted on both sides, were accompanied by an enthusiastic ‘yes’ from the woman.

Not sure I’ve ever vocally shouted ‘yes, yes’ to my DH and we’ve had sex thousands of times.

Stop watching when Harry met Sally.

As you can see, no one really cares about male victims or female victims if harmed by another female.

In reality everyone should be taught to both give and get consent, and to respect each other. It is really unfortunate that is a minority view.

When it comes to the individual being assaulted, it doesn't matter what the stats say.

At the same time, only so much can be taught. A lot has to do with contextual factors. Just like it would be easy to say that all parents should teach their kids to have high self confidence and self worth and insecurities are a failure of parenting. Since females have less self confidence than males, do we say that parents are failing their daughters and not teaching them and raising them to be confident? Or are there other factors at play other than parenting.

It is the same crime even if the dictionary definition isn't rape.

They may have similar impact on the victim by they are not the same crime. It is not just a dictionary definition is a legal and criminal one.

You seem to be missing I haven't disagreed with you that both partners in a relationship should not be sexually assaulting OR raping their partners.

I am saying if you are not informed enough be factually correct and make up your own definitions and language you lose credibility and simply confuse your child when they are hearing factual language elsewhere such as school.

@HuzzahIndeed your first post is wise, but
not the phrase “Yes means yes”. That has the potential to sound a bit east.

Instead, parents should be teaching their sons about “enthusiastic consent.”

Yes!!

46.4% lesbians, 74.9% bisexual women and 43.3% heterosexual women reported sexual violence during their lifetime, while 40.2% gay men, 47.4% bisexual men and 20.8% heterosexual men reported sexual violence during their lifetimes. (p)

1 in 10 women say they have had an attempted or completed rape by their partner. 1 in 45 men say they have been forced to penetrate their partner against their will.

NSVRC, 2015

This is blaming women AGAIN. Why mothers? Why not parents? And why suggest that these women were happily letting their sons go ahead and rape other women?

Ridiculous notion.

Agreed.

I think the sentiments in the OP are ok, but ‘yes means yes’ slogan can be misinterpreted - like just because she says yes, you must proceed (which you wouldn’t if she is below age of consent or if she is sleepy or drunk or unenthusiastic). I think I’d like to teach a ‘default is No’ standpoint.

consent can be withdrawn and both parties should check at reasonable intervals whether the other party is enjoying it. If not or if in doubt, stop and discuss. Offer other options - stop or try something else or maybe try again later. Also, not to badger someone or pressure them. I have boy and girl kids. Both need education, but I think boys need to be more careful (as they can do more damage - like lorries can hurt more people than cars).

Yeah who needs actual data and evidence when we’ve got your opinion.

that’s definitely the basis for an informed discussion 😁

I bloody won't tell them yes means yes. Dangerous thing to be spouting.

Yep this 👆 times a million. Crack on with raising your own kids OP.