Too old, too fat?

[WoofWoofMooWoof]

I need somewhere to rant. I went for a job interview today at my DC's school - they know me there. I do what I can to help the school out whenever I am able. It is an Ofsted outstanding school and I've always had the biggest respect for the teachers there.

There are two positions and they only interviewed three people. It was an 'interview day' where we had a tour of the school, met the team etc, and were then interviewed separately. The whole thing took three hours. Me and another lady did the interview day together and the third lady was interviewed later, after school, so I didn't get to meet her. The other lady and I had quite a bit of time alone together in the staff room and we chatted a lot. She owned a restaurant which she sold to open a wine bar, and she only wanted the job so she wouldn't be bored during the day when the bar isn't open. She's never even been to the school before. I am a single mother desperate to find a job so I can feed my kids who are pupils at the school.

However, I am 51 and fat, and she's in her 40s, pretty and slender.

I thought the interview went very well (despite me having bad side effects from my second Covid booster earlier in the week).

Got a phone call from the head teacher this evening saying that I am employable, but I was unsuccessful because the other candidates were stronger and had experience working in a school. This despite the fact that I have 32 years admin experience and the other lady owns a bloody wine bar!

AIBU to be totally pissed off at him blatantly lying to me? To me it's very obvious they've decided to hire the younger, prettier model?

AIBU to have lost all respect for the school and the head?

Although unconscious bias definitely exists with regard to looks, I would consider other reasons too when evaluating your performance. I always hold my cards very close to my chest when interacting with other candidates in interviews. I'm also very cautious of the ones who get over familiar. It's impossible to say for sure why you didn't get the job, but the example Q and A you used gave a possible insight. I would say the answer wasn't perceived in a positive way. I wouldn't want to employ someone who basically goes behind my back to attempt a coup d'etat with other members of the the team!
I sympathise as I've also been knocked back from jobs and it does sting...especially if you feel something was unfair. What I did was really dig into my interview prep and found some ways of doing some mock interviews. It is humbling but so helpful. I'm now in the perfect job for me at this time and I'm so glad I didn't get a couple of others with the benefit of hindsight. Good luck!

I, too, feel like you're getting an unnecessarily hard time.
I really feel for you, and I can imagine what the last few days have been like. I admire you enormously and I very much hope you find gainful employment soon.

So I really should have asked them to postpone the interview 'till I was feeling better. I would've presented better and answered better without the brain fog.

I agree.

Oh dear, I screwed up royally, didn't I?

Although thinking about it I might well have been a bit bored in the job. It's only one task really, there wouldn't be much variety and I do enjoy a bit of a challenge.

As a fellow 51 year old that's also overweight -I hear you!
I'm sorry you weren't successful and clear its really disappointing and annoying.
The candidate you didnt meet may have had school experience and the business owner may have transferable skills ( as I'm sure you have) but interviewed a bit better.
However I do think PP are being a bit naive if they think interviewers don't judge on appearances, they are looking for someone to represent their business or school or customers/ parents.
I think being older and overweight can count against you even at a subconsciously level.
Often it's not just skills but the indefinable if your face fits.
I'm sorry you weren't successful, dont give up, keep going.
If you are able to you could ask for more specific feedback on how you answered interview questions. If you needed to add more detail etc.
Also I wouldn't be surprised if the wine bar owner doesnt last very long.
Good luck in finding a job.

@DorsetCafes In many areas of the retail and hospitality industries it is well known that staff are recruited for their looks and size: usually younger, thinner and more attractive is preferred. It might not be legal but it happens.

If you'd been bothered to read further up, I specifically said there are certain industries that absolutely do (rightly or wrongly) take looks, weight and age into account but I don't think a non-customer facing role in a school would be one of them.

My point is that OP is absolutely blaming everything for her lack of success on superficial stuff, ie looks, age, weight, illness, employer lying, etc - rather than facing the fact that just maybe it was something to do with her actual ability to do the job and someone else (of her own age) was thought to be a better fit.

If she's getting turned down for job after job, as she has implied, she's basically saying that every single employer in her area has some kind of grudge against her because she happens to be overweight and over 40.

It's obvious she is very limited in the hours she can take on and location when it comes to what work she can take on but also doesn't take this into consideration, like she's not taking into consideration that they preferred someone else for a reason other than her looks and age.

AND IMO, anyone who comments thar their DC gets better treatment in life only because they happen to be pretty is not taking into account that maybe their own children get treated well by people because they are also lovely, sociable and intelligent people in their own right. It's sad if they think they get treated that way purely for their looks.

Sorry, I was just going by what you said.

I said that I wouldn't want to go over his head, but I might present my idea to the team and see what they think about it, and that if the team feels it would work we could all present it to the manager.

She's going to be able to get things and opportunities in life just by batting her eyelids lol.

There's nothing 'lol' about this.

You really need to get over this insecurity about your age & looks. I bet you look fine.
You are doing your DD a disservice by saying this.

It's not true. Your DD will do well based on aptitude, ability & attitude. Yes, some people can make judgments superficially on looks. But longer term, success comes from how you perform in role, interpersonal skills & work ethic

It's an appalling message to give your DDs, that they can succeed by using their looks, and if they don't, it's because they aren't good-looking enough! 🤦🏻‍♀️

Nice try @devon1 at digging yourself out of your hole but your rather nasty comment was specifically aimed at @JennyJenny8675309 who is nothing to do with the OP’s situation.

The fact is that she is right, and the research indicates that there is bias against fatter people in hiring in most contexts, not just on super yachts and in Abercrombie and Fitch (although those are the examples everyone knows
about).

Brain fog is hateful when you're interviewing, I feel for you. I agree the answer you gave would be a red flag unfortunately but if you weren't feeling well, that's understandable.

Focus on the next application, the fact you're getting lots of interviews is a great sign, and research a few questions and point-scoring answers. Sometimes it's just about getting the buzzwords in!

DTD1 is OK to leave on her own, but she's going through an extremely aggressive phase and my main worry is leaving her alone with her twin for too long. She has threatened to kill DTD2 in the past, and whilst I obviously hope she won't do anything, and I don't think she will, I really don't want to take that chance. She's mostly aggressive towards me.

TBH if this is your life as a mum, being turned down for an admin role is the least of your problems.

What help from professionals are you getting?
Are SS involved?
School pastoral team?
GP?

Either you are using this as a kind of excuse, or it's way more serious than you say.

Does this fantastic school not have homework club? After school activities?

Being unable to leave two girls aged 14-15 alone together is pretty extreme.
Do you understand how serious your post makes this sound?

That at 51, you need to work only school hours, to supervise your DD who is threatening to kill her sister.

I'd say your main aim at the moment is to get professional help for your DD- counselling or whatever she needs- so that she is able to live alongside you both without these threats hanging over you.

It sounds as if she is the controller of the family and you dance to her tune.

At 51, with teenage daughters, your life should not be like this.

Is their father around at all?

I meant that as a little joke. And DD is highly intelligent, funny, smart (when she isn't being a stroppy teenager).

However, I was young once, and at school, teenage, young adult as well as adult years prettier girls get more attention. I well remember my pretty friends getting what they wanted. Us plain janes batting our eyelashes never got us anywhere. All the prefects at school were the good looking kids. The teachers were nicer and kinder to the pretty ones.

I'm not doing my DD a disservice at all - I know she'll succeed either way, but her beauty will most certainly help her. That's not being petty or anything, it's an established fact that prettier people get more attention.

I'm not doing my DD a disservice at all - I know she'll succeed either way, but her beauty will most certainly help her. That's not being petty or anything, it's an established fact that prettier people get more attention.

And if she gets fat and doesn't get a job she interviewed for, will you assume that's the reason why?

@WoofWoofMooWoof Has your DD got a formal diagnosis of autism?
She isn't in a special school, obviously, so what provision for SEN is being made?

Is the school aware of her history of violence and threatening behaviour at home?

Have you ever had professional input for this?

I ask as someone who was an educational professional working with children with ASD.

It's incredibly sad that you cannot find work other than within a school day because of the threats of your teen daughter.

Have you had meetings with her teachers or the pastoral staff in order to get support?

Also, your DD who is being bullied by her sister needs help too. What's life like for her?

Do they see their father?

This is my life I'm afraid. And this will be outing, but DTD2 has recently come out as trans, so now I have to get used to having a son instead of a daughter, and the family refuses to accept it, so I have all that to deal with. DD is upset because suddenly her twin is getting the attention she's used to having, which has upped her aggression levels.

Their dad is an abusive malignant narcisisist - I left him when the kids were 4, but he still tries to control my life. I'm not scared of him anymore, so now he tries to get to me through the kids, telling them what a bad influence I am on them, and how bad I am for 'allowing' my son to be trans. It's a laugh a minute I tell you.

I have been trying to get help for DD for many years, but all they tend to do is blame the parent and send you on yet another parenting course. SS was involved for a time, but the made such a cock-up in their CIN report that the ex threatened to take legal action and we told them to leave us alone.

DD falls under the SENCO at school, and both DCs are in the LGBTQ club where they're made great friends.

And on top of it all I have the JobCentre, who are aware of the issues, pressurising me to get a full-time job.

So yeah, that's life.

So you see, people can call me chippy, entitled and someone with a bad attitude all they want. I'm not like that and I have enough shit to deal with to take offense at people who don't know me judging me.

@DorsetCafes Nice try @devon1 at digging yourself out of your hole but your rather nasty comment was specifically aimed at @JennyJenny8675309 who is nothing to do with the OP’s situation.

Who's trying to dig themselves out of a hole? I addressed the comment in the last paragraph of my last post. Both Jenny and OP were implying that their DC were better treated than them purely because they are considered prettier, which i think undermines their DC and paints them both in a poor light. I stand by my comments, regardless of whether call my nasty.

Now off you pop

She had her ADOS assessment when she was 5 and has a formal diagnosis. She is highly intelligent and masks at school and explodes when she gets home. School is aware of her behaviour at home, yes.

She has had sessions with an ASD professional. I have meetings with the SENCO, although it is hard as she masks so well at school.

They see their father every weekend, although with DS coming out he frequently refuses to see his dad, as his dad still calls him by his deadname and says he's a 'silly girl' etc. It's tough on DS and he's lost all respect for his dad.

@DorsetCafes aren't you going to pipe up at all the other posters who are also basically saying they are wrong to comment that their DC get better treatment in life based purely on looks? No? Just me?

Oh well, always has to be a scapegoat on MN for people who have an opinion contrary to the ones who always think they're right. I'm happy for it to be me

I'm really sorry you have these issues at home.

Your previous posts show you did talk to your GP and something was put in place at school, over 2 years ago.

Being highly intelligent does not mean a child doesn't benefit from an Ed Plan by the way.

I see she was assessed at 5. IMO that is a long time ago and I'd suggest you have another assessment via your GP.

Your home circumstances are the priority here as you cannot get any job outside 9-3pm unless your DD's behavioural issues are under control.

She needs assessment and input from an ed psych, or a paediatrician or a psychiatrist for her behavioural issues.

YOU need ongoing support, not just accepting this as 'your life'.

I am guessing but a lot of your DDs behaviour is attention-seeking and idle threats. I doubt she will do anything that she says. It's all about controlling you and perhaps even goes back as trauma from the family breakdown.

Please try to get the support you need to sort this out.

I know this is not a popular thing to say but I doubt that at 12 (13?) your other daughter really knows her gender or wants to change. It's often attention-seeking behaviour (maybe even to offset her sister) and at 12 she is just at puberty let alone ready to decide she is a boy.

She is highly intelligent and masks at school and explodes when she gets home. School is aware of her behaviour at home, yes.

When children can behave at school, as they know the boundaries, then the problems at home are often family issues.

A diagnosis at 5 is not always accurate and I suspect the 'label' may have stuck and she is using it as stick to beat you.

I am posting this from professional experience.

He was 4 years old when he first said he wanted to be a boy when he grew up. And he's known for years, but only came out to me this year. And he has severe body dysmorphia - wants to chop his boobs off. He's 14.

He's always been in the background with little confidence, but since he's started living as a boy it's like he's a different child. His smiles are genuine, he has soooo much confidence and he's happy, really happy. Believe me, I've explored this with him a lot. For now, if this is who he wants to be then, as long as he's happy, that's what's important. If he changes his mind later then that's fine also - he knows this, and that I'll support him whatever he decides.

Hi OP, just wanted to acknowledge how disappointed you must be. Sounds like you’d have been great in a pastoral care role.

It’s true the young, pretty women have an advantage - even in a professional /intellectual environment. I see it at my workplace regularly (where I am now perceived as an unimportant middle aged frump!).

But the good news for you is that there will be other opportunities. Something else must come up that you could apply for. Until then, you hold your head high and try to feel better 💐🍰☕

@JuliaDorneys

A diagnosis at 5 is not always accurate and I suspect the 'label' may have stuck and she is using it as stick to beat you.
I am posting this from professional experience.

She was seen a couple of years ago by a world famous (not saying who) ASD specialist. This lady said after 5 minutes with DD she could clearly tell she was autistic.

The police (yes, there has been police involvement regarding their 'D'F) also said it was quite clear to them that she is autistic.

@JuliaDorneys I know this is not a popular thing to say but I doubt that at 12 (13?) your other daughter really knows her gender or wants to change. It's often attention-seeking behaviour (maybe even to offset her sister) and at 12 she is just at puberty let alone ready to decide she is a boy.

Wrong post, wrong thread, wrong topic board. Go have this discussion elsewhere

@WoofWoofMooWoof
OP your life is way more complicated than a job rejection.
I have a dc who has lived as ftm. There isn't much help out there. You are either a transphobe or an enabler. It is the hardest thing I have ever dealt with. No wonder you are stressed and I think unhappy.
I get needing a job but I think you need a fresh take on this.
You might eat/ drink more because this is so huge. Unless you have walked in these shoes no one has any idea. You grieve but also want to help your daughter.
Mermaids is currently being investigated, please don't go there.
Try to find a therapist in the family counseling Trust.
There are trans threads on mumsnet. They may help or hinder. Change your name on there as people can search you. I was abused and quit MN but I always come back because most people are decent.
Why not try a charity shop for a job? They always want staff. Rubbish pay but can be interesting. Very worthamwhile if you pick well.
Ask me anything around the above if you need to (I am the fat bird who earns a big salary!)