AIBU to be wondering if we should be leaving London too?

[KarokeandGin]

We currently live in east London with 3 young children in a 3 bed house. Very happy with our house and whilst the younger two share a room hopefully we will be able to afford to do a loft conversion in a few years so by 7/8 the younger two won’t have to share.

lots of our friends are leaving London and moving to Kent and Essex for the grammar system and more space. Our local secondary school is fine, nothing special but not awful.

AIBU to not really have considered if we should be leaving London too? We are happy here but I do wonder if the extra space and countryside living would benefit the DC. My main concern is moving and not being happy personally (both myself and DH grew up in London) even if it was a better life for my DC. Should I be putting their happiness and potential for a better education first?

YABU - consider going and put your children first
YANBU - continue enjoying the life you have and your children will likely do just as well

Oh and yes we have family nearby. My husbands mum helps with post school pick up once a week.

Living in London is amazing, so much to do and children growing up with confidence. I live in a different European capital city, I wouldn't swap for a rural setting for any amount of garden.
Do what makes you happy but as a teen I'd much rather be in town.

I can see the schools thing is a consideration.

FWIW though I think people hugely exaggerate the value of living outside cities for young families.

The only real window when you get any value out of it is when kids are primary age and below and can play outside etc. For teenagers living in a big city will always be preferable to a small town. Small towns have far more dangers than big cities due to boredom, lack of facilities and drugs and teenagers loathe living a car journey away from their mates.

Personally I would be inclined to stay put in your shoes.

We are in East London and so pleased we stayed put. DS has just started year 7 at an outstanding state secondary that is 15 mins walk away and on the edge of a huge park.

There's so much to do for teens here - whatever DS ends up wanting to do work wise or hobby wise he'll have access too. Plus now covid restrictions are over I'm loving doing galleries/museums, theatre and visits into central london. I'm so grateful to live in this city despite the pollution/crime. I grew up in a beautiful part of rural Yorkshire and love to visit but wouldn't want to move there.

It depends. What would your day to day life be like? We stayed, partly because we both would have had to commute , making it more expensive and logistically harder with childcare etc.

If you’re from London do you have family there? One downside of staying for us is that it takes a long time to travel to family but sounds like that’s not an issue for you?

Now kids are getting older they definitely have more independence than if we lived somewhere remote and plenty to do, but you could have that in a decent sized town in Kent or Essex!

Stay! My parents moved out of London before I was born to a picturesque but boring town in the midlands and I always used to berate them and say I wish I’d grown up in London instead. There was plenty of underage drinking and drugs in the town because teenagers are so bored. I now live in London myself and love it.

A lot of people we know have done this - I admire their sublime confidence that their kids will get into grammar school. It's really competitive and even a very bright child can have a bad day.

We chose to move to an area of London with a really good comprehensive - there is also a semi selective school not far away so if the kids turn out to be very bright, they can try for that.

Yes admittedly I should have added relatively before affordable. Affordable for London that is!

The school question aside, I think London life is great for dc. Mine roamed free, lots of big parks, little woods, playing out, cinemas, cafes, the river - that crucially they could get to on their own with their oyster cards. Loads of freedom and independence. And as they get older a huge range of opportunities for work experience, volunteering, easy cheap travel (they are young adults now).....So I would want to be very sure any move cracked the school question.

Everyone I know who has moved out of London now spends a lot of time going back in on weekends, including my family . My teens would love to still live in London . Stay put if you’re currently happy.

With older children I would definitely stay- even if it meant moving to somewhere similar with a great school. So many reasons if you aren't obsessed about a much bigger house and garden- which may well cost you similar too in anywhere half way nice

Snaresbrook is nice, I miss the woodland and I'm only in Leytonstone now 😅 might be worth checking if the private school does decent bursaries?
I grew up in the countryside and was bored the moment I turned 12.

All depends on what you want. For us education trumped everything but luckily we only live 30 mins train journey into central London and live near the station so kids can get themselves everywhere independently

There is no need to move to follow the crowd

This thread is making me want to move back to London with my teenagers in tow

The thing to consider about the grammar school system is are your kids academic enough to get in? There would be little point in moving if not, and there are some shocking high schools in Kent where they don’t have the range of abilities schools elsewhere in the country have.

Moving out of London (I lived all over the city for 30 years) and moving to the Surrey countryside was the best thing I have ever done for my family.

The lifestyle we have here is incredible. London is fine, and I still commute in twice a week but when I reached my 40s, it just lost its shine. For me London is for your 20s and early 30s. I think beyond that, London lifestyle becomes a bit tired and jaded.

We have come alive again living rurally. There is just so much outdoorsy stuff to do. Yes, you can cycle in London but it’s not the same, and the green spaces, while practical, are not going to set your soul on fire. Being surrounded by natural beauty, nature and wildlife is the best thing ever. It’s honestly like being on holiday all the time.

There are none of the drug problems some have mentioned upthread. People are too busy with their hiking, mountain biking, hill walking, horse riding and wild swimming to get involved in drugs! Crime is virtually non existent. We leave our door unlocked frequently, I feel so so safe here. Neighbours are lovely, there is a really strong community vibe, way stronger than anywhere I’ve experienced in London. The schools are amazing. We stargaze most nights as no light pollution. No sirens so we can hear owls hooting at night.

I grew up rurally and wanted the same idyllic lifestyle for my children. I was never bored as a teenager, I absolutely loved living in the countryside and am v grateful to my parents for making the choice for our family.

incidentally, if I ever do miss the dirt, grime, pollution, noise, crime, miserable faces, crowds and general edgy vibe, I can jump on a train and be in London in 50 minutes!

We had your exact dilemma 21years ago - we stayed, did the loft conversion and it was absolutely the right decision. My kids have so much freedom- love the Zip/Oyster card. Lots of parks nearby, 300 yards from Northern Line tube station and loads of buses. Kids bus hop to see friends all over the local area and almost never require a lift giving us parents lots of freedom too. We have close relatives who live in a beautiful Cotswold village - you have to drive to get a pint of milk, zero public transport and everything seems to be shut by 10pm!

You could get much more for your money by moving just over the North circular.. You do have the 11+ option in Snaresbrook btw - though the boys grammar is hideous and I wouldn't send a child there in a million years! You have two excellent high schools near you (Wanstead and Woodbridge Highs) though so don't worry about moving out for Grammar.

Where do you live @AndTwoFilmsByFrancoisTruffaut ? It sounds idyllic!

If you are near a decent secondary already I wouldn’t be moving into a grammar school area at all. Watched enough people go through the hell of the 11+, even when the kids do really well. Awful if your kid isn’t super (and traditionally) bright.

Balls. Why is it assumed that children can only live a decent life outside London?!

It sounds like Utopia. That doesn't exist either...

Snaresbrook is nice, I definitely wouldn't move to Essex from there. I thought you were going to say you were somewhere like Poplar. The schools around Snaresbrook are good, you're in the catchment for the grammars (Woodford and Ilford County Highs) if you want, although they've extremely competitive because they serve such a large population. There are good (100% remission) bursaries at Forest and Bancroft's (although if you're living with two incomes you probably wouldn't be eligible, they're means-tested). There is plenty of green space around with Wanstead Park on your doorstep and wilder bits of Epping Forest minutes away. You've got all the advantages of living in London without many of the downsides (I speak as someone who works in Newham in the community). Plus, even without going in to London you've got Wanstead to hang out in.

Move out if you want a different lifestyle, but be prepared for it to be very different. From family members who have moved out to commuter belt Essex and Kent, they're not happy. And they can't afford to move back. It's a lifestyle which suits some people, but if you're broadly happy with your life in London then it may not suit you. If you did want the countryside, by the way, I'd go for proper countryside not home counties commuter towns.

You both grew up in London... and you stayed. That would suggest you actually like London and didn't have a terrible childhood. Why would it be any different for your kids?

There's so much to do in London. There might be less space, but as you know, it more than compensates with so much other stuff.