Not to like the Globe Theatre calling me a bitch?

[EmpressaurusWitchDoesntBurn]

OK, not to my face. But following the non-binary Joan of Arc play they’ve shared a ‘terfs stop being transphobic challenge’ referring to anyone who doesn’t believe in gender identity as a bitch.

It’s a shame. I’ve been to some amazing plays at the Globe. But they’ve made their position on feminists pretty clear, so I won’t be going back.

twitter.com/The_Globe/status/1577694873204973569?t=4hr_PKJE3MY0_9-1x3oFvQ&s=19

Thank you for posting this. Will read the full article later. It really is true Re: American culture today. It’s shocking to see such a shift and not have really noticed while it was occurring.

How come this post is not considered a slur against Trans Rights Activists?
It appears that double standards are held by most of the posters here (I'm not sure what you call yourselves these days? Gender critical?).

You'd be forgiven for thinking that you're saying here that TRAs are violent, murderous rapists? And that gets past MN guidelines?

Strange.

I don't follow any of these discussions as it's not an issue which concerns me, so I believe you if you say some TRAs have been violent and/or threatening. But to suggest that it's all of them? Is that fair?

Gender neutral, gender critical, gender bias, transsexual, transgender, transvestite.

I genuinely do not understand why this seems to be such a contentious issue for a lot of people on MN. Christ, it has even indirectly been a reason why we have ended up with The Tories still in power lol.

If this is all that will ever bother you in your lifetimes, then you really are living charmed lives.

Would there be any willingness among the parties on opposite ends of these arguments to engage in mediation? Because all of this hatred and bitterness can only end up one way - in tears.

I've never heard the TRAs side of the story and I tend to avoid discussions about it here (it was the reference to The Globe that piqued my interest enough to open this thread yesterday), so I'm not sure how vast the chasm is between the two extremes.

Passmethewhat, so you are unaware of the violent abuse directed at women who have dated be open about their gender critical views?

As Shakespeare himself said 'What's in a name?'. While a rose is a rose is a rose no matter what you call it and a pile of shit is a pile of shit no matter what you call it (Shakespeare didn't that last bit. I can't credit him with that piece of literary genius 😄)

Ffs, dared, not dated.

I am indeed. As I said, I tend to avoid all of the discussions on this topic as I find a lot of it hypocritical, unnecessary and hateful sometimes.

Okeydoke

@Hoardasurass post specifically singles out 'violent TRAs', I didn't take that to mean all TRAs. That's an odd reading.

It just seems to me that there are insults flying from every side and people are being hurt on both sides, so I wonder whether there is a middle ground to be found? A truce?

From the sound of things it might require Bill Clinton and a boxing referee to try to avoid punches being thrown, but I don't see any progression being made in constantly going round in circles.

@MNHQ why have you deleted a quotation from a legal case?

I suppose you could interpret it as "by some TRAs who are violent". It might just be the way it's written as it does sound like the poster is saying TRAs are violent.

That's how I read it as well

That poem is genuienly awful.

This - "I just think they're scared because I am angrier than them, because I am angry at them and angry at men". I mean, yes? In general, women are scared of men who are very angry at them.

Women have been hounded out of jobs, arrested and questioned by the police and threatened with rape and death for suggesting the very simple fact that human beings cannot change sex.

The situation has got completely out of hand because one group of people are demanding that the wants (not rights, but wants) of a very tiny % of the population should take precedence over the rights of 50% of the population.

Many individuals, corporations, govt bodies etc are finally starting to realise that their efforts to accommodate the vocal wants of the tiny % are going against the rights of the 50%, and not in a good way, so are rethinking policy.

Hahaha. You’ve never heard the TRA side. Gotcha, well, why don’t you go off, do some research and then come back and discuss mediation. There’s only one side issuing death rape and assault threats and it’s not GC women

That was to Passmethewhat assuming the question is genuine.

13 and 3/4…

@Passmethewhat I believe there have been lots of invitations from the GC side to debate. They have been, without exception, rejected. Usually, with a side order of 'ohmahgahd, nasty terf, literal violence'. Some posters may come along with examples. Off the top of my head, Grace Lavery (tw) and Helen Joyce (author of 'Trans').

But, it is true the threats and violence are issued asymmetrically from one side. Obviously, NATRAALT. Also, there is a distinction between tras and transpeople, in the Venn diagram there is overlap but it's not a circle.

It is a genuine question because as I said, the arguments from either side don't concern me at all. I have a cousin who dresses up as Melissa lol (I've never seen him in his full garb).

I think that as a minority group, they should be protected to some extent. We're all quite well aware that violence is more likely to be carried out by men than by women.

From the limited reading I do of this subject on here (I've never seen it discussed anywhere else), shared toilets and shared changing rooms seems to be the biggest fear here, though I'm not sure whether there are other issues of concern.

If the issue is the shared facilities, I would suggest that a transwoman (transsexual or transvestite) would be in extreme danger walking into a men's bathroom.

I would just hate to see this unwillingness to negotiate with each other and have open dialogue where each side outlines their point of view (with Mohammad Ali in his prime, doing the refereeing 😂) might be more productive. I have no doubt that there extreme views on either side and there are probably less extreme views on either side. In order to prevent some horrible nasty outcome some day, mediation might be a way forward? If they could achieve peace in Northern Ireland after both sides bombing and shooting each other for decades, I think some sort of middle ground can exist to appease both sides in this argument?

If this was a one off, you could maybe be forgiven for arguing ''creative licence'' by not acknowledging that Joan of Arc was indeed a woman.

But it isn't.

This is just another in a long line of incidences where historical female figures have been retroactively trans'ed.

Joan of Arc was a notable figure for the sheer fact that she WAS a woman. Being feminine is not the definition of womahood - a woman is an adult human female, regardless of personality.

If the issue is the shared facilities, I would suggest that a transwoman (transsexual or transvestite) would be in extreme danger walking into a men's bathroom.

how is this womens problem to solve? That is make on male violence. Women are not human shields for males who want to present as women. Why don’t you pop over to TRA Twitter and tell them to Be kind? I dare you 😀. Why should women compromise on their safety and dignity so some men can have their feelings validated? Surely a compromise would include a win for both sides. What would women get out if allowing all spaces to be mixed sex?

"Yet, it is important to understand and account for the power dynamic at play here. In examples such as those above, members of a marginalised group and their allies seek to identify, and express anger or frustration..."

Women are also a marginalised group and it's often men (for clarity - who identify as men) who are using the term TERF abusively and as a slur. In fact this whole conflict appears been jumped on by misogynistic, often left wing, men who have seen an opportunity to abuse women with impunity and get applauded for it.

Whatever your opinion on the issues brought up by trans rights, the above is surely not acceptable.

I would just hate to see this unwillingness to negotiate with each other and have open dialogue where each side outlines their point of view (with Mohammad Ali in his prime, doing the refereeing 😂) might be more productive. What nonsense have I written there? PMSL.

Try again.

I'd hate to see things escalate into violence and mediation might be better.

Have the TRAs a particular group/spokesperson or do they tend to be disorganised and individuals arguing? Similarly, is there the same on this side (i.e. the gender critical side, if that what's it called?)?

Would there be any willingness to engage in 'peace talks'?

Off you go @Passmethewhat you go and tell trans Twitter to stop with the death, rape and assault threats, the doxing and the abuse of women, then come back when you’ve sorted them out. I always find it’s better to start with the harder tasks first.