Not to like the Globe Theatre calling me a bitch?

[EmpressaurusWitchDoesntBurn]

OK, not to my face. But following the non-binary Joan of Arc play they’ve shared a ‘terfs stop being transphobic challenge’ referring to anyone who doesn’t believe in gender identity as a bitch.

It’s a shame. I’ve been to some amazing plays at the Globe. But they’ve made their position on feminists pretty clear, so I won’t be going back.

twitter.com/The_Globe/status/1577694873204973569?t=4hr_PKJE3MY0_9-1x3oFvQ&s=19

Do you weep, J.K. Rowling, do you weep ...

Your fine nose tuned to the stench of 2023 ...

In the US there are prisons with wings for transgender inmates. They are called Alternative Lifestyle Units and are not the same as solitary confinement.

I was thinking @Discovereads trans wings in prisons might be the way to go. They could be used almost like young offenders institutions in that they are a group of prisoners with extra needs. So just as YOI provide staff who can educate and hopefully help young people turn their lives around, through access to services you don’t get in normal prison, the trans wings could be staffed with people trained in trans issues and who can provide support and help in transition.

Actually GC posters have suggested thirds spaces loads of times, so don't lie and suggest that they are unwilling to compromise.

India Willoughby goes out of their way to use the women's space, even when a third space has been provided. This is what we're up against.

If protective custody is good enough for other sex offenders, then why isn't it good enough for Karen White and Katie Dolatowski?

If Stonewall etc had been fighting for third spaces all this time instead of access to spaces for the other sex, we’d all have been able to agree.

There’s an article here about the transgender wing at Downview women’s prison: kpssinfo.org/the-transgender-unit-e-wing/

Pretty much all the regular posters on the FWR boards are in favour of third spaces, they come up in conversation all the time.

Very disingenuous to suggest otherwise. The issue is (as already pointed out) that's not good enough for many TRAs.

TRAs don't want third spaces. Because its not about the spaces, that's just four walls and a ceiling.

It's the women and girls in that space that's important. It is they who provide the 'validation'.

Without being able to use the presence of those women and girls, the space is useless.

Hence not wanting one that doesn't provide access to them.

You can advocate for them all the live long day Discovereads, and get full agreement from GC women everywhere. But you'd be pissing in the wind.

They should, of course, be enforceable. And the negative reaction of TRAS to that should alert everyone as to exactly why they're necessary.

It's the women and girls in that space that's important. It is they who provide the 'validation'.

Exactly

Also entitlement.

Some people really need to hear 'no' more often.

They do far too often unfortunately as I am sure you well know and when they do clash it is always the bepenised women who win.

@Discovereads That's a brilliant post. I know that there are genuine fears and concerns on both sides. The good the bad and the ugly are everywhere including among transpeople and among mumsnetters.
But if neither side is willing to try to find a solution, then what's the point? Keep arguing. Keep fighting. Keep going around in circles insulting each other. What does it achieve.
Wrt the poem written and published by The Globe, you can see that there is fear, pain and anger on their side too.

If my child came to me and wanted to change gender or whatever it's called, my heart would break - not because of her feelings and decision - but because of the horrible reception and abuse she would receive everywhere.
BTW - you're all saying that the author of that poem is young. Have you no consideration whatsoever that because she/he is young, she/he may not be able to handle this amount of criticism?

If it was your child or your grandchild, would you write the same about them?

@Passmethewhat are you back yo being civil now after your little tantrum yesterday? If my child wrote a poem calling women bitches and Terfs they would not be getting pats on the hard. They’d be getting a stern talking to. I don’t know about you but I don’t tolerate misogyny and disrespect in my house. Whatever the age of the person doing the disrespecting.

I didn’t lie because I never suggested GCs had never proposed 3rd spaces. But some are unwilling to compromise, you are one quite plainly unwilling to compromise as you’re harping on about PC and rejecting third spaces.

Not all sex offenders are put in PC/solitary simply for being sex offenders. Besides, you say this is good enough for all TW, do you even realise you are also saying it is therefore good enough for all TM? Do you really think that all TM in mens prisons should be kept in solitary confinement (which is known to usually be used as a punishment for prisoners) while the regular murderer and rapist men in the prison are housed in better conditions both physically and for mental welfare? When TM are most likely to be in prison for nonviolent crimes in the first place?

We have a duty of care to everyone.

No one’s suggested otherwise. I simply don’t agree with the assertion that it is pointless to keep presenting different third space ideas and options to TRAs because it’s been rejected in principle in the past by extremist TRAs. And that presenting other ideas recommended by extreme GCs that are clearly unreasonable and unacceptable is what is pointless and self-defeating.

Well if TWAW, there will be other women in their block/wing. They can’t argue with a straight face there are no women if TWAW.

And with the loos, there will be women in there plus TW because my suggestion isn’t to create a 3rd space for TW, but for GCs.

Exactly. And medical care would be better as well. And they’d have the social support of being with other TW who face the same challenges they do.

If the prison does work/jobs within it, no issue with select low risk TW serving food in a cafeteria or working in a library. It would be supervised mingling with women prisoners so they’d still feel part of the womens prison community as a whole but also it would be easy to safeguard any from hurting women prisoners. Like high risk TW prisoners who are sex offenders or killers of women…they don’t get a privilege like this. But a TW who say was a car thief or got caught being a drugs mule….why not?

I simply don’t agree with the assertion that it is pointless to keep presenting different third space ideas and options to TRAs because it’s been rejected in principle in the past by extremist TRAs.

I suggest you take yourself on the Twitter and suggest it to current TRAs and see where you get with it.

And with the loos, there will be women in there plus TW because my suggestion isn’t to create a 3rd space for TW, but for GCs.

WHY on earth should women give up their spaces and rights that their ancestors fought for, to facilitate men? Why should vulnerable prisoners, abuse victims, race victims be given this additional burden so that men can be appeased? Honestly, why would you think it's okay to do this to these women?

its like the mask of misogyny has slipped and suddenly it's just clear as fucking daylight.

Thank you. While I agree with @RUFISRUF that any child of mine who wrote a rage fuelled offensive poem would be getting a stern talking to, I also agree with your point that when online strangers start piling on it could tip over into cyber bullying and online abuse. And I agree whoever wrote that poem had hurt in there as well as anger. Their mental state is questionable not just from the poem itself but because they posted it publicly. I too would want reactions to be restrained and think about the person on the other end with a bit of compassion.

@Discovereads please go over to the feminism board and read. You are not the first person to suggest these things and you need to find out why it has not happened. You also need to read up on TWs being sentenced to prison for raping biological women, and being sent to a women's prison because they are a TW..where they proceed to rape a female inmate. Its a fucking joke.

Nope. I’m going a different route. Not going on Twitter which is where people love to be keyboard warriors and tweet for provocation. No one listens on Twitter.

? WTF women wouldn’t be giving up their spaces! I’m giving them a sacrosanct space. You haven’t even read my suggestion in full have you?! Deep breaths Discover.

Ok. There are plenty of TRAs who are not trans and are also XX, natal female women. These women say they are 100% fine with sharing a loo with TW. They have no issues whatsoever and TW are welcome. So the “all womens” loo would be a loo for TW plus any woman who freely and genuinely doesn’t mind and a good number will use that loo as they are TRAs, allies, and want to stand up for what they think is right.

Then we can have a separate “female only loo” where no TW can go. This is for any woman who is GC, or of a religion requiring no sharing with males, or women just uncomfortable for reasons like male violence PTSD. This is a third space just for females.

Been around that block. Just actually want to do something instead of feeling outraged and like the country is run by idiots and the activists on both sides are egomaniacs who feed on conflict Adrenalin and have no intention of settling their differences.

For the love of god. This isn't about 'activists' on both sides.

This is about a decades long plan to dismantle society through the lens of queer theory. Allowing, in this case, a handful of men, who used to be called transvestites, to claim the insane idea that they're really a different sex, in order to access women. For a number of reasons.

It's not about settling who looked at who funny in the back of the car, on the way to the seaside.

There's only one side who are trying to depart from reality, in order to dominate a section of society. And it's not women.

The answer is no.

Wow. Who is the mastermind of this decades long plan? And once society is dismantled, what then?

No mastermind, just nudge theory in action. Fuck knows, but no improvement for the status of women and children.

I didn't like it either and some of it sounded threatening. I was pretty shocked, to be honest.
I know they've deleted it, but I feel they should either stand by it or offer an apology. Deleting is neither here nor there.