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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Oh will you look at that! A government u-turn!

723 replies

tenbob · 03/10/2022 07:31

AIBU to think this government is now totally dead in the water..?

Wonder what all the Truss handmaidens tying themselves in knots to defend the tax cut will say now..?

OP posts:
BoxcarMilly · 03/10/2022 08:52

@SleeplessInEngland

Have a look back at the Labour Government's U turn during the IMF crisis in 1976 (James Callaghan was Chancellor then)

and here's more, not as dire, (that's if it didn't affect you) ; www.insidehousing.co.uk/insight/insight/from-the-archive--labours-decent-homes-u-turn-59886

www.annemariemorris.co.uk/news/labour-government-must-u-turn-plans-hit-families-new-car-taxes

LakieLady · 03/10/2022 08:52

OhhhhhhhhBiscuits · 03/10/2022 07:51

So they all made a shit ton of money for themselves and cronies and now u turn after everything is fucked and cost the country billions of pounds. What a shower of shit they really are. I am terrified at what is to come.

Yep, I bet plenty of people in the City made a mint out of shorting the £ before the BOE stepped in.

And all of it at the expense of Joe Public.

SleeplessInEngland · 03/10/2022 08:53

The Express’ front page “we must stay the course”

Poor dears evidently couldn’t change it in time .

Mrsfussypants1 · 03/10/2022 08:53

I'd like to be smug about this u turn but these two make me very queasy about what is to come next. But my Sm feeds going crazy over it gives me some hope that voices are being raised.

WatchoRulo · 03/10/2022 08:53

LydiaBennetsUglyBonnet · 03/10/2022 07:40

TBH I’d rather have A leader who did U-turns on bad decisions rather than carry on through with them to save face. I mean did people want the u-turn or not? If the answer is yes then what are you moaning for.

What a dim-witted view that is.

We didn't want the tax cut for a tiny number of very rich people.
We are angry that it caused the BOE to have to intervene to save people's pensions.
We're glad it's going but it has cost us all dear so we are still annoyed about that.
None of that is "moaning" - this isn't some schoolkid's day out, it's serious.

Mischance · 03/10/2022 08:53

Of course we want governments to U-turn when they get something wrong, but...........

  • within the first few days of a premiership?
  • when all and sundry had been telling them it was wrong in the first place?
  • when billions of pounds have been pissed up the wall on this farce?
  • when the UK has been made a total laughing-stock and international standing and confidence have plummeted?

They can u-turn all they like but we now clearly know how incompetent they are and how little regard they have for ordinary people struggling to manage day to day. It is entirely pathetic - they are not fit to govern.

BoxcarMilly · 03/10/2022 08:54

@Rosscameasdoody ' Labour would never have created this shit show in the first place.'

How much do you charge for loaning out that crystal ball ? 😂😂😂

Rosscameasdoody · 03/10/2022 08:55

BluOcty · 03/10/2022 08:51

Can they reverse all the other unfounded tax cuts now?

KK has already confirmed that nothing else will change and that we won’t find out how they intend to pay for it all until the end of November. Either they don't know, or its so bad they need time to dress it up as something else.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 03/10/2022 08:55

Getoff · 03/10/2022 08:43

So if I understand the situation correctly, the most BoE has spent as of this past weekend is £25 billion, not £65 billion, and in return for that spending, it has acquired assets that might, when resold in the near future, be worth more than they spent, due to a partial U-turn on the policies that led the asset price to fall?

It’s only on week days so £15bn max as the daily repurchase is up to £5bn.

I think the abolition of the 45% rate was a mistake (and I pay it) but the people shouting that this has cost £65billion are also wrong.

  1. The BoE is determining daily if further repurchases are needed. So they may never spend the headline amount
  2. The BoE are buying assets for resale not cancellation. The gilts are long dated and will be resold.
Notonthestairs · 03/10/2022 08:56

A lot of this comes down to the refusal to get an OBR forecast for their Budget. If they could have shown their workings/likely impact then they'd have had more credibility.

Hugely expensive own goal.

L1ttledrummergirl · 03/10/2022 08:57

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

LakieLady · 03/10/2022 08:57

ClaudineClare · 03/10/2022 07:54

She and Kwartwng were arrogant in the extreme (or simply just fucking too stupid) in not even consulting their own cabinet, let alone the OBR.

But hey ho. A few nauseatingly rich people got richer thanks to the debacle.

They don't normally consult the cabinet on things like this to prevent leaks.

Piggywaspushed · 03/10/2022 08:58

Of course governments shouldn't U turn as some kind of hobby. It's ridiculous. This has happened so often that people view it as a norm in politics - exam algorithms, school closures, the economy, lockdowns etc etc etc.

And yet, Boris Johnson sneered at Keir Starmer - 'more flip flops than Bournemouth Beach' or whatever he said.

How about consulting in the first place, listening ? Not just bringing in your personal hobby horse disastrous economic model and then saying it wasn't your idea in the first place.

Liz Truss and Kwarteng are reported to be very friendly. I am guessing not any more.

BuildersTeaMaker · 03/10/2022 08:58

Tangled123 · 03/10/2022 08:08

I actually see the argument for reducing tax for the rich (if the country can afford it). I don’t really have a problem with that. My issue is that too many people in work are struggling. I think employers should have to pay living wages, but if they aren’t, the government should step in. Help should have gone to the ‘working poor’ first. Then give tax cuts to the rich.

I’ve never liked the Tories, but even I didn’t think they could sink this low. Wouldn’t surprise me if this was the plan the whole time though, they just wanted to make millions in the meantime. I agree with everyone who said they should be in jail.

Oh, right , give money to the “working” poor as priority

what about the non working poor

you are just stating we have the deserving poor and undeserving poor

you must be very the privileged not to be able to see the numerous situations that people find themselves in when jobless: of being sick, disabled, single mum with young children because her waster of a partner has walked out or beaten the shit out of her. Or becuase one of your kids has special needs. Or because your aging parent can’t care for themselves and doesn’t have money to pay for someone else to help or doesn’t want some stranger coming in for 15 minutes to bath, dress, give them a meal in such a bloody rush at 10am in the morning when they have been sitting in their own faeces for 3 hours. Or because you have to care for a mentally ill partner who can’t be sectioned as there are no beds and sees someone from the mental health team precisely once per year and you are effectively a full time CPN . Or becuase you have educational special needs or mildly disabled, or even the “wrong” appreance for what employers want ( e.g. wrong race, wrong age, wrong sex ) and can’t get a job because no one wants to employ you. Not everyone can work a full time job, not everyone can find work that will fit in with their personal circumstances that they find themselves in.

contrary to popular (eg daily mail readers) belief not everyone can work as fruit pickers - it actually takes a lot of physical fitness and a degree of skill. I wouldn’t want someone providing intimate care for me who was doing the job reluctantly because their dole money would be removed if they didn’t- jeez that’s a route to abuse. Or a job that is gig economy when you don’t know form one day to next when you are needed to work but you would need childcare to do it that, unsurprisingly, can’t be arranged at one day, or even 1 months notice.

be very careful going down the route of being judge and jury over who is deserving and undeserving. You are down a slippery path of thinking back to putting undeserving into work houses before you know it- which by the way isn’t that short of what the current treasury chiefs paper stated on “work for the dole “.

Yes, the working poor are in need too - it is scandalous that those in work, full time, need subsidies to make ends meet- they don’t need benefits they need employers to pay up. We shouldn’t even be in a situation of directing benefits to them …what they need is a government that makes companies pay a living wage and not expecting the tax payer to subsidise wages . That’s what happening to allow their CoE to be paid 10 times what their workers get on average, or lining the pockets of their shareholders with increasing returns, or giving the boards of director eye popping bonuses even when the company is struggling financially . But those companies effectively using tax payers to pay their wage bills are the ones lining the Tory’s pocket and their lies of trickle down economics.

I am very fortunate in that I was able to work, and earnt a high enough wage to be upper rate 40% tax payer. I paid a lot of tax, which I never begrudged going to people for whatever needs- by the grace of god and all that. I do object though to paying tax to subsidise wages of other company employees who could get away with paying shit all to their workers. And I do object my tax being scaudered on dodgy government procurement deals with their mates, or on BOE costs of £65billion to bail out Truss’s bribe to her rich cronies to vote for her in next election.

theworldhas · 03/10/2022 08:59

@ShandaLear
It’s almost like they’re actively trying to make us poorer.

Well austerity has proven to have been a wealth transfer in percentage terms. IE the rich came out of it with a larger slice of the overall pie than when the went in.
They are now trying to speed this up so that it’s virtually impossible for Labour to reverse without extreme policies isn’t he opposite direction which will see them crucified by the MSM.

Piggywaspushed · 03/10/2022 08:59

to prevent leaks

Didn't work, did it? We all know about Kwarteng's champagne party with the mega rich disaster capitalists egging him on.

LadyWithLapdog · 03/10/2022 08:59

Such an utterly incompetent duo.

As for saying who are these people at home and moaning on SM. I hope you say the same to the daily Mail contributors and about those who queued 20h for QEii coffin.

derxa · 03/10/2022 08:59

FluffySocksAndHotChocolate · 03/10/2022 07:54

Also it's a tiny bit of a good thing too because labour is definitely getting in on the next election. Hurray! Grin

I hope not

GottaGetOutofDairy · 03/10/2022 09:00

I also can't believe they didn't change the 20%/40% thresholds. That would have achieved their aim but in a way that would have driven the right headlines (for them) and provided great cover for the other (fucking awful) decisions about the environment, welfare and freeports.

This is such an own goal that it's hard to imagine they are anything other than dead ducks floating.

theworldhas · 03/10/2022 09:03

The few Tory supporters are getting desperate now. They’d be better off stopping their pointless attacks on a centrist Labour Party and instead trying to rid their Party of the scores of immoral chancers and neoliberal wreckers (who have very few true Conservative values) and who have brought massive harm upon the UK during the past decade of their government. Maybe then they might be fit to govern again some time before 2050.

WeepingSomnambulist · 03/10/2022 09:03

lannistunut · 03/10/2022 07:39

I think it is absolutely brilliant that the BoE had to step in with £65 BILLION support as a result of their uncosted budget proposals, and now they are not going to do them anyway - I really hope they are enjoying pissing away taxpayers' money! Angry

And this will not fully solve the problem that the markets are looking at the UK like Hmm, because they have shown they are completly out of control.

They are doing them.
The 45p tax rate only brings in about £2billion a year. Its tiny when compared to all the tax cuts they have handed out. The pound didnt crash because of the 45p tax cut. It was all the tax cuts.

This is just optics. It doesn't actually make any difference and wont help with the national debt. Their tax cutting plan is still happened and is still unfunded. There will still be £40 Billion of cuts to public services.

BuildersTeaMaker · 03/10/2022 09:04

Notonthestairs · 03/10/2022 08:56

A lot of this comes down to the refusal to get an OBR forecast for their Budget. If they could have shown their workings/likely impact then they'd have had more credibility.

Hugely expensive own goal.

Well it’s not an own goal is it. The chancellor will be ok even if he has to resign- his mates have made millions out of his “failure” and they owe him. The Tory’s will still be in power, and probably the current system will ensure they go back in for next election and 4 more years of same shit, over which time Truss will be quietly put back into cabinet ….
pits not an “own” goal at all
its us that’s paying for it.

notimagain · 03/10/2022 09:06

HappyHappyHermit · 03/10/2022 07:38

Yet still certain people will have made millions from it being announced.

Potentially some people might have made millions (plus) from betting on the rates at both ends of this tawdry episode.

Dreikanter · 03/10/2022 09:07

ReeseWitherfork · 03/10/2022 08:30

Now that’s the question isn’t it. Ah to dream.

Vote Mogg for PM - goose quills for everyone.

(No, really, please don’t - we’ll all be promised goose quills but only get a single Haunted Pencil).

theworldhas · 03/10/2022 09:08

It’s like the Tories are actively taking the piss out of the whole country and have been for most of the last ten years. It astounds me that there are still 20%+ people who would vote for them again. How? Why?

Okay perhaps 2% of the very wealthy, household of 100k+, who also have an extreme selfish outlook on society, and are financially well off enough not to be directly affected by the NHS, crime, cost of living etc. But where is the other 18% coming from?

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