Oh will you look at that! A government u-turn!

[tenbob]

AIBU to think this government is now totally dead in the water..?

Wonder what all the Truss handmaidens tying themselves in knots to defend the tax cut will say now..?

None of the parties give a stuff about us.

news.sky.com/story/amp/new-nhs-data-reveals-decade-of-decline-under-tories-that-liz-truss-must-reverse-12692204

"The last prime minister to inherit a health service that met any of these targets was David Cameron, 12 years ago."

In fact, each Conservative leader since Mr Cameron has been handed an NHS in a worse condition than their predecessor. Liz Truss is no different.
Accident and emergency
A&E waiting times now are twice as bad as they were when Boris Johnson became prime minister three years ago.
Mr Johnson inherited a health service for which waiting times were already five times worse than when Mr Cameron, his schoolmate, took over in 2010."

This isn’t unbelievable at all. Happens all the time. I know someone who was admitted to hospital the other week with a serious condition who had to spend 2 nights sleeping in a chair. Do people even realise how dire the situation in the nhs is? I live in fear of my family needing it this winter.

As I said, I was shocked. It was walking passed the clearly sick people in corridors that got to me.
The staff were bloody amazing though, I couldn't fault them, they were doing their best despite being under resourced.

I'm not going to give medical records. Although I resent being called a liar, I have nothing to prove. Take a walk to your local hospital and speak to the staff in a&e to see for yourself.

@BoxcarMilly , you really are a despicable excuse of a human being aren't you, to even think that someone would lie about something like this speaks volumes about your character.

For the Tory apologists hard of thinking on this thread:

Back in 2002 these kinds of wait did happen. But they were outliers.
Here and now in 2022 they are far more frequent because of years of mismanagement and underfunding of the NHS.

Hope that clears things up a little for you all.

Oh FFS @BoxcarMilly are you denying the issues in the NHS?
Do you work in the NHS and are you coming at this from a position of knowledge?

This is quite telling. The country is declining. Even conservative thinkers see it. Our politicians have become insincere to the point of fantasy. We will live the reality, which they never see.

www.politico.eu/article/uk-politics-liz-truss-boris-johnson-britain-broken/

www.ft.com/content/ce7a8c29-ee2e-490b-85b7-20ae16ef772f

If people cannot be discharged safely into the community due to a lack of private social care provision (remember the vast majority of social care provision is private ) then there are automatically less beds free on the wards and A&E cannot discharge people from their care onto the wards, therefore people end up waiting for a long time either in an ambulance or on a trolley.
Bed management is like Tetris at the best of times due to running at such high capacity all the time. I wonder if anyone has worked out how many more beds are required ? And whether they will be provided by the Conservative manifesto pledge of 40 new hospitals ?

Whilst thats true, some are worse than others, farming is and will be in a far worse state because of Brexit and which party gave us that vote, then wrecked labour/fom for all aspects of farm work? which uk cannot or wont be able to fill.

Anyhow, thought you were booming with super hi lamb prices?

I 've friends in West Devon and live nr by in Cornwall, so a very rural area, incredible how support for the Tories has plummeted ... happy days! if not for my works pensions.

It’s too simple to talk about bed numbers alone. The trend for many years has been reducing beds in favour of more care in the community which is not a cost reduction policy (although it does save money). Lots of energy and effort is being ploughed into virtual wards/hospital at home and other such initiatives.
The main issues causing the crisis in hospitals are pandemic backlogs, unprecedented staffing shortages, bed blocking / poor social care and pressure in primary care (insufficient GPs, not enough F2F appointments, population growth, increasing acuity of patients).
But yes there is still a shortage of beds as well as this.

@BoxcarMilly

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-62601863

Not A&E but perhaps even worse, as no HCP nearby, did wait 20hrs in an ambulance at Treliske though... lucky her...

DD works at Derriford, i'll get her to post a pic of the Ambulances queuing? or maybe you think she and her colleagues should work harder and get the patients back out in the community to be cared for by non existent care workers?

They already have to have patients from AE put into corridors outside wards, waiting for a ward space.... 3rd world doesn't give it justice.... ALL thanks to your party of incompetents.

Novum
Do you ever worry about how you spend your time, @ Clavinova?
The time you spent painstakingly going through every post on the thread and cutting and pasting that lot could surely have been better spent on, well, anything.

Don't be daft - why would I need to painstakingly go through every post on the thread just to lift 5 random posts containing dates from yesterday? I only skimmed through the last 3 pages (out of 24/25 on my screen). Are you saying you couldn't skim through 3 pages of a book, highlighting 5 random sentences containing dates in 2 or 3 minutes?

Wouldn't your time be better spent if you didn't keep worrying about me?

Brexit is the main cause, so many Healthcare workers left the UK around jan 2020 & beyond due to CV.

Now can't come back because of visa's and absurd health ins costs, hardest hit is adult social care, they can't even get a visa.

LexMitior
This is quite telling.

Take, for example, inflation: Inflation is high everywhere — across the Continent and on the other side of the Atlantic — but in Britain, it’s heading even higher, with Goldman Sachs warning that it could hit 22.4 percent next year.

The inflation warning appears to be based on the energy price cap reaching £6,000.

@TheHoover By virtual wards, do you mean community care teams, or District nursing as it used to be called ?
Not sure about Hospital at home ? it might be called another name in our area ?

birma they are technology-enabled early discharge programmes. Not widespread; they need huge investment (wearable devices etc) & workforce planning before they can be scaled up.

@TheHoover sounds interesting do you have any links ?

sure….
www.england.nhs.uk/virtual-wards/
ihub.scot/project-toolkits/hospital-at-home/hospital-at-home

www.england.nhs.uk/nhs-at-home/

Thank you @TheHoover , prior to the pandemic our local area got rid of the team that prevented hospital admissions by giving short term targeted support/provided equipment/oversaw medication administration in an acute phase etc and focused instead on a service that concentrated on getting people home from hospital by providing short term targeted support.
Personally I think there should be a team that prevents uneccessary admissions and also facilitates discharges. With the best will in the world sometimes being in hospital is the right place for that person at that time, but there is often a short window where an admission could be prevented with the right interventions. I think concentrating on one end of the admission is short-sighted but appreciate that the money in a pot usually only has one name on it.

It’s too simple to talk about bed numbers alone

Bed numbers are a vital component of the solution. We used to have community hospitals with step down beds here where people could go to get back on their feet when they were medically ready for discharge. The patient/staff ratio was lower and there was access to occupational therapy and physio. All gone now. Opening more of those beds would alleviate the situation instantly.

Agreed (provided you can staff them)

Re preventing unnecessary admissions do you mean this….
www.england.nhs.uk/community-health-services/urgent-community-response-services/

Looks like the mythical 40 hospitals Johnson was never going to build anyway… aren’t going to get built: inews.co.uk/news/health/boris-johnson-flagship-policy-scaled-back-1895462

Why would staffing them be any more difficult than staffing care homes? I bet pay rates for HCAs are better than care home assistants and the need for qualified nurses would be minimal. The real issue is the refusal to acknowledge that getting rid of them was a mistake.

@Clavinova - the message of the article is still true. I'm happy with James Kirkup's assessment. He is after all, a sane Conservative who doesn't fight shy of seeing the issues. The fact that the party is busy ruining the country by its fantastic behaviour is not something that escapes him.

It is fantastic- in the truest sense of the word.

You have frankly not seen anything yet. If you really are in Conservative Central Office, you would know that. I do.