To think SOMEONE must be able to do something?

[PurpleLampShades]

I am at breaking point and don’t know what to do. NO ONE will help me.
DS is just turned 16 and is in what I would call an abusive relationship with a woman in her mid-late twenties (don’t know her exact age). This has been going on for about five months and I have done everything I can think of to stop it. I’ve grounded him, taken away games consoles, stopped pocket money, stopped giving him lifts, pleaded with him, begged him, shouted at him, tried to reason/explain my concerns to him etc. I even tried speaking to her nicely and then not so nicely. Nothing has worked. She has wormed her way into his head and he does everything she tells him. Last weekend he walked out of the house and has been staying at her house with her. I’ve called the police and social services who have both done nothing. I’ve been round there everyday but he won’t (or isn’t allowed to) come to the door and she has told me to leave him alone and that he wants nothing more to do with me. I don’t believe her. What can I do? I really need advice on what I can do to help him? AIBU to think the police or SS should be able to do something?

Ugh - if this was a 15-16 year old girl with an older man, would people be saying to just leave them alone? Would the police just leave it alone? Why is it different because this is a boy instead?
He was still under 16 when this relationship started, meaning the woman is wrong. Paedophiles are not just men.

@LuckyLil you may have heard the term ‘beyond reasonable doubt’, THAT is required to convict, NOT irrefutable evidence. Why you think you’re conducting a trial here, goodness only knows, but at least get with the program

There doesn’t need to have been sexual activity - the intention of sexual activity before 16 counts as grooming, which is an offence. So for example messages suggesting she’s waiting for him to be “old enough”, or suggesting she finds him attractive, or talking about condoms etc etc would all count as grooming.

If he was referring to her as his girlfriend ahead of his 16th birthday that would point to sexualised communication between them, which is grooming given their respective ages.

@LuckyLil

What criminal offence has been committed? We don't even know there was any sexual activity before he turned 16. They might have waited.

Are you not reading my posts properly or is this a reading comprehension issue?

Because I very clearly explained that if they even kissed, it falls under a specific criminal offence that I have now shared the definition and conditions of with you twice.

And did I say knew it as a fact that they at least kissed? No. I didn't say 'they 100% kissed...' I said 'I think' and I stand by the following:

I think it's almost 100% unlikely he was referring to her as his girlfriend if they hadn't at minimum kissed at some point between May and him turning 16 in July, don't you?

If you think it's likely they waited then you're either genuinely incredibly naive or being wilfully disingenuous.

It's really, really strange to be so defensive of a predatory relationship like this.

We aren't going to agree because you don't seem to understand the predatory element of a woman her age even dating a literal child of 15, so probably best to leave it there.

Again, you're just speculating. You don't know any of that for a fact. How do you know they they even kissed? You don't.

I literally didn't say I knew any of that 'for a fact'.

I said 'I think'. On account of the fact I'm not the boy or the woman involved, of course it's speculation.

I've never suggested I know as fact that they've kissed.

I've said 'I think' and given my opinion...

Not sure why you can't understand the difference, it's a very simple concept.

No expert but work in a school and have done all the safeguarding training - I can't believe that a 16yo boy being held practically captive by an adult woman would be viewed any differently than a 16yo girl by an adult man.
Sexual activity is not illegal at 16 but they're still viewed as children in the eyes of the law until they're 18 and as a school, we would absolutely have to report concerns of this nature.
Speak to safeguarding officer at school / college; they will know the right agencies to contact and language to use.

at 16 but they're still viewed as children in the eyes of the law until they're 18 and as a school, we would absolutely have to report concerns of this nature.

thing is they are children when it suits and adults when it doesn’t suit

as soon as both parents are not around ( through death sometimes) it’s difficult to get either SS or council to be responsible. Both pass the buck, sadly I’ve seen this happen more than once.

Yes they do all the safeguarding but when they don’t know how to resolve a situation they 🤷‍♀️ and they would have to force the boy to go home and can’t keep him there, they have nowhere to put him as they are full

I hope you managed to get some sleep last night OP.

Nobody knows whether they kissed before he was 16 or anything like that but there's enough suspicion that they did. She's a 27 (?!) year old woman with a 16 year old boy, he was referring to her as his girlfriend at 15. He's now moved in with her and not speaking or seeing his mother.

Of course it needs looking into, if she's done nothing wrong then she's got nothing to worry about does she.

All I’d really say is that I understand the difficulty the police would have in taking action in a case like this. The entire thread is filled with a unfounded speculation and gap filling with no evidence. Not one person on this thread knows for a fact they even kissed when he was 15, it’s just speculation. Even OP has made a whole series of allegations in her first post based solely on what she speculated or felt may be going on, no evidence was provided for any of those allegations. The police don’t deal in speculation and unfounded allegations. There may be suspicion of wrongdoing but speculation and allegations put forth with no evidence is not proof of illegal activity. Yes it’s a bit weird a woman her age would have an interest in a lad his age but the fact we think it’s weird is not proof of illegal activity. Neither is speculation about supposed sexual activity we don’t even know was happening before he was 16.

I’m waiting on the college safeguarding person to phone me back. Haven’t heard anything from the police yet. I suppose they’ll wait until this evening now to go round.
Didn’t really sleep much.

@PurpleLampShades thanks for the update. Have you had any breakfast?

@LuckyLil

Not one person on this thread knows for a fact they even kissed when he was 15, it’s just speculation.

Correct. Nobody has said they know it for a fact. They've said they believe it is very likely. Again, you don't seem to understand the difference between fact and opinion.

Even OP has made a whole series of allegations in her first post based solely on what she speculated or felt may be going on, no evidence was provided for any of those allegations.

The police investigate to find evidence based on suspicion if they feel the suspicion warrants investigation. It's literally their job.

The police don’t deal in speculation and unfounded allegations.

They investigate speculation if they feel it's warranted in order to establish whether the allegation is unfounded or not. Literally their job.

There may be suspicion of wrongdoing but speculation and allegations put forth with no evidence is not proof of illegal activity.

Establishing whether speculation and allegations can be evidenced and meets the threshold of illegal activity as regards a specific offence is the police's job.

If they establish there is adequate evidence that does so, they then pass the case to CPS. CPS will review the evidence and decide whether they can prosecute.

If the police decide they don't have adequate evidence then no further action is taken against a suspect.

@stillvicarinatutu is much more patient than me but you really don't seem to understand the role of investigating when it comes to the police.

They investigate allegations of criminal activity. They don't demand a civilian brings irrefutable evidence to the table before they look into something. Because that would be ludicrous.

You poor thing. Try to eat and drink, even if just tea and toast, as you're likely running on adrenaline and that takes such a toll on the body and also makes you faint and confused

Did college tell you whether he'd turned up today?

It is treated exactly the same whether it is a girl or a boy.
But the held captive is OPs opinion. The police will check out the reality.

I haven’t said he’s being held captive. What I’ve said is that I think it’s abusive in that she seems to be controlling and coercing him to do what she wants him to. People are determined to tell me I’m overreacting or it’s all my fault, that I’ve driven him away but this is not normal behaviour from him and it’s not an appropriate relationship so I need help to get it stopped. Maybe I haven’t handled it the best at the beginning but what else was I supposed to do?

The safeguarding person at the college confirmed he’s there today and is going to speak to him later to check in with him and assess the situation. I’m glad he’s gone to college. I text him earlier to say I hope he has a good week and I’d love to see him at some point. No reply yet.

Fantastic news that he’s in college.

can childline advise?

Of course it is not an appropriate relationship.
It is good he is going to college. That is a protective factor.

It's really good that he's in college

That's the point though, you don't know that she's controlling and coercing him or making him do what she wants him to do. You've just decided it must be true because it's what you think. How do you know he isn't asking her to answer the phone because he doesn't want to speak? If she was controlling and coercing him and preventing him from speaking to people do you honestly think she'd be letting him go to college where he might meet girls his own age? I get this is hard for you and I am sorry you're going through this but I'm afraid that just because you 'feel' something is not evidence.

Ive never said anywhere that what I feel is happening is definitely true but what I’ve seen and heard is concerning. I’m allowed to have those concerns and I’m allowed to voice them. I don’t need to present evidence like I’m on bloody trial. Also, no ‘evidence’ doesn’t mean it’s not happening either. Maybe he is asking her to speak for him but that still doesn’t make it right. That’s not normal for him to not answer his phone or reply to texts or walk out of the house and not come back, so the question is why all of a sudden is he letting that happen or doing that? Something is happening and I am scared. Despite what you might think I do know my kid. I mean what do you suppose is going on then? With this woman in her twenties moving a 16 year old kid into her house with her? What possible innocent thing could it be?

@LuckyLil
Your either being deliberately obtuse or not seeing this from the POV of a mother who is concerned and has every right to be for their childs welfare.

The OP has been given excellent advice from @stillvicarinatutu and others on here yet you keep posting to disagree or suggest nothing untoward is going on in this weirdly unbalanced relationship.

Yes you can have your opinion but the problem is your opinion is not helping the OP in any way.

The OP needs and has a right to know her child is ok and she has now taken steps to find out how he is through the official channels open to her.

You may agree or not agree with her actions but at the end of the day she has been left with this as her only option.

@LuckyLil

You've made your opinion very clear on this thread.

You've ignored the very clear advice from professionals and very clear legal explanations of how a suspicion being reported can lead to police investigating if they feel it's warranted.

I'm afraid that just because you 'feel' something is not evidence.

Nobody. Has. Said. It. Is.

Civilians don't need to have irrefutable evidence of a crime to report something to the police. This is what you seem unwilling or unable to get your head around.

Civilians can report any suspicion of criminal activity to the police, who will decide if investigation is warranted and if so, then they will investigate to establish if there is evidence of a crime.

Your approach to this is utterly bizarre and entirely unhelpful for OP.

Whatever way you look at it a 27 year old adult getting into a 'relationship' with a 15 year old minor is dodgy and any parent would be concerned.