To all those wondering why police aren't investigating crime

[stillvicarinatutu]

Prompted by a discussion on here.

I'm a police officer and today we received an email from out chief constable to say that only 17% of incidents police in our force attend are for crime .

The other 83% are non crime related - mainly mental health issues. Police forces are now taking on the work of other agencies which means that they are not dealing with crime .

Partner agencies are so stretched the fall out is now being dealt with by police because we don't shut shop, don't only work 9-5 , and cannot say no .

I read and see regularly that police are criticised for not dealing with crime .

Well - this is why . Because we are picking up the slack from mental health, social services and medical incidents.

I think it's time for people to decide what they want from their police . If we weren't dealing with the 83 % of incidents that are not crime related then perhaps we could spend more time on the 17% that are . ?
I don't think people realise that this is happening to this extent .

[Brefugee]

I have been a victim of crime several times. The police have never ever shown up. I have no confidence in the ability of the police to solve or prevent crime. The only time I ever see the police is buying coffee in the coffee shop. I have completely lost faith in the police as an institution.
Surely you don’t have an issue with police officers buying a coffee?

that was your takeaway from that comment @Nicknacky ? are you a police officer

[jcyclops]

When my father (in his 90s) collapsed at home I phoned 999 and started CPR. The operator stayed on the phone with me until the paramedics arrived about 6 minutes later. Within 10 minutes the paramedics declared him dead (heart failure). They then had to wait with me for around 2.1/2 hours for the police to arrive. The 2 police officers (representing the coroner) had questions and forms to fill that took about 20-30 minutes, and they then had to wait nearly 2 hours for the coroner's duty undertaker to arrive and take the body away. (PS. The operator, paramedics and police were excellent throughout - I can't praise them enough).

This is all standard procedure for a sudden death outside a medical setting, but to require 3 hours of time by a pair of paramedics and 3 hours by a pair of police officers illustrates another reason why getting an ambulance or having police attend and investigate a crime is problematical nowadays.

[ScurryfungeMaster]

If someone is suffering from a mental health crisis or needs support for one reason or another it's not really fair to blame the general public for the lack of funding and support provided to people elsewhere. If public services are chronically underfunded then that's not on us. I understand that police are stretched too and I don't think that the police are to blame either but if people need help then they are going to try and find it where ever they can.

[Nicknacky]

@Brefugee

I have been a victim of crime several times. The police have never ever shown up. I have no confidence in the ability of the police to solve or prevent crime. The only time I ever see the police is buying coffee in the coffee shop. I have completely lost faith in the police as an institution.
Surely you don’t have an issue with police officers buying a coffee?

that was your takeaway from that comment @Nicknacky ? are you a police officer

Yes I am. I have been for twenty years and as Vicar says, there are no officers to attend incidents reported. But, yes I will comment if I see implied criticism of cops getting a drink.

I was nightshift this week, 6 cops was all I had to answer calls.

[Brefugee]

the point wasn't criticism of them getting a drink. If you report crime and the police never turn up but you see them in costa of course you're going to be cross. The fact that your sole take away from that comment was "wah someone was mean to the police because they bought coffee wah" i am not surprised that people are exasperated with you and your colleagues.

Sure, get a coffee. but don't be surprised when victims of crime pass comment.

[WouldUShouldI]

People need to realise social workers, support workers etc don't have the power to section people and remove them from public places only the police can do this on a section 136 under the mental health act this is why the police are called and not social workers with no powers @Nidan2Sandan

[ChilliBandit]

If police officers cannot accept that police culture is an issue and is fostering public animosity towards them it will only get worse, which will make policing harder. Policing in a democracy only works with consent from the public. Listen when people tell you they do not trust you and work on it. Do not just jump on the defensive.

[moose62]

I have called the police twice recently. In the first instance they turned up but were not interested and I struggled to get a crime number - which you need for insurance. The second time they tried to convince my elderly mother that she had 'lost' her purse rather than had it stolen, even though we saw the suspect do it. If lost the form is much shorter to fill out with no investigation. I have not seen a policeman on the beat in my area for over 5 years and both the local police stations have been shut. The government is to blame but the police don't help themselves and I say that as an ex police officer.

[Lonelycrab]

Have read most of the thread and I sympathise op. In England we have comparatively less police per capita than almost all of Europe. France has 50% more. Italy double. That has to count for something. I’ve been a victim of serious assault last year and although the follow up support was good the guys were never caught despite crystal clear cctv images.

It’s mostly where you end up with where you have a succession of (mainly) Tory governments stripping everything back as far as they can- and then they strip it back some more. It’s reaching a point (reached?) where things are breaking down and not functioning at all.

And even now, this new budget will need immense further cuts on top of all the cuts already to try and balance the books. I really hope one day we have a government that will fund vital services properly and not embark on pointless vanity projects like hs2 or some poxy boat for the pm to sail about in to name just a couple.

[LakieLady]

@Florenz

Why don't the police deal with crime instead of mental health issues?

At a guess, it may be to do with the fact that they have the power to detain people on MH grounds if they are a risk to themselves or others.

It's not unknown for people in crisis who can't get to see their CPN or other MH professional to commit crimes in order to get themselves detained. MH services are so stretched that they can't meet the needs of MH people.

[Ladybug9]

Not read the thread because it will just upset me, but all I will say is that anyone who judges the police based on perception alone please please spend a day volunteering with them. The media is so detached from reality.

[Travelledtheworld]

@stillvicarinatutu I am with you completely, two good friends of mine both tough and capable women have recently left the police force because most of their shifts involved dealing with domestic violence calls, or sitting in A&E with people with severe mental health problems.

[Nicknacky]

@Brefugee

the point wasn't criticism of them getting a drink. If you report crime and the police never turn up but you see them in costa of course you're going to be cross. The fact that your sole take away from that comment was "wah someone was mean to the police because they bought coffee wah" i am not surprised that people are exasperated with you and your colleagues.

Sure, get a coffee. but don't be surprised when victims of crime pass comment.

You would be exasperated with me then. I’m now a Sgt and I try and ensure all my officers can get some kind of break as their welfare is extremely important to me. The non priority calls can wait. If a member of the public was to comment to me about them getting a coffee I would politely tell them to wind their neck in.

I did have a member of the public complain to me a couple of weeks ago about police officers taking their annual leave when there is a shortage🤦🏻‍♀️

I assume you don’t take a break at work?

[Psychonabike]

@stillvicarinatutu

Can I politely ask you who categorises these incidents?

The statistics need to be right in the first place in order to identify what it is that is actually lacking/ what the root cause is.

While we're just as pushed as any other area of health, much of what we (in Psychiatry) are brought by the police as "mental health" just isn't what we consider mental health i.e. actual mental illness requiring psychiatric treatment.

It's usually:
Alcohol or drug related
Emotional distress in response to life events (e.g. discord in relationships)
Behavioural issues (sometimes in response to being arrested for another crime)

Not saying that all this should sit with the police; it shouldn't unless a crime has been committed. But if we mislabel things as "mental health" the root causes aren't dealt with and the right services won't be identified.

At the moment we are seeing the consequences of increasing poverty across the UK. This is likely to increase all of these problems, and this will impact health and policing, but ultimately it's about political policy and it's effect on society. Neither organisation will have the solution but both will feel the strain. In-fighting between services ignores the root cause.

[ChilliBandit]

@Nicknacky

You would be exasperated with me then. I’m now a Sgt and I try and ensure all my officers can get some kind of break as their welfare is extremely important to me. The non priority calls can wait. If a member of the public was to comment to me about them getting a coffee I would politely tell them to wind their neck in.

I did have a member of the public complain to me a couple of weeks ago about police officers taking their annual leave when there is a shortage🤦🏻‍♀️

I assume you don’t take a break at work?

This is what I mean, you just aren’t listening to people. You are just going on the defensive about comment on a cup of coffee rather then listen to the real issues people have with the police.

[JudgeRindersMinder]

@stillvicarinatutu

What I'm saying is for every 100 incidents called in to the police only 17 of those are for actual crimes - it's not that we are only attending 17% - it's that only 17% of the calls for our service are crime related.

as a police dispatcher I’m surprised it’s as high as 17%! I can go an entire week of shifts and never deal with a crime, it’s all mental health and social care issues.

[JudgeRindersMinder]

@blockpavingismynightmare

@Florenz · Today 15:05
Too many people join the police for the wrong reasons nowadays, they just see it as a career, not a vocation. They couldn't care less about crime or the victims of crime.

To be fair, the same could be said about nurses doctors dentists. No vocation just a career structure and a pension

The problem is that this comes from the top. Police officers and staff aren’t valued in the way they used to be.

[stillvicarinatutu]

@Brefugee

the point wasn't criticism of them getting a drink. If you report crime and the police never turn up but you see them in costa of course you're going to be cross. The fact that your sole take away from that comment was "wah someone was mean to the police because they bought coffee wah" i am not surprised that people are exasperated with you and your colleagues.

Sure, get a coffee. but don't be surprised when victims of crime pass comment.

Do you work ? When you're there do you get regular breaks for a cuppa / toilet / lunch ? Or if you're at home do you get a drink when needed ?

That always makes me laugh - YOU ARE A PUBLIC SERVANT HOW DSRE
YOU GET A DRINK ! I PAY YKUR WAGES YOU KNOW! How dare you drink coffee on the job !

[CollieWobble22]

They need to scrap Healthwatch England and use the money for suicide prevention.

Healthwatch England is a massive waste of cash that nobody has ever heard of (well barely anyone!)

In 2021/22 Healthwatch network received total funding of £25.4 million

Ambulance service, A&E, and police would all benefit

[Ladybug9]

@stillvicarinatutu

Do you work ? When you're there do you get regular breaks for a cuppa / toilet / lunch ? Or if you're at home do you get a drink when needed ?

That always makes me laugh - YOU ARE A PUBLIC SERVANT HOW DSRE
YOU GET A DRINK ! I PAY YKUR WAGES YOU KNOW! How dare you drink coffee on the job !

How dare you queue up publicly for a meal/drink when your shift is actually over but it's the first chance you've had after attending a horrendous death to feed yourself/ use the loo? People have no idea

[Nicknacky]

@ChilliBandit

This is what I mean, you just aren’t listening to people. You are just going on the defensive about comment on a cup of coffee rather then listen to the real issues people have with the police.

I know what the issues are. There are no officers to take calls. But I can’t change that so I will look after the ones I DO have. And if the public have a problem with that, that’s on them.

I can comment on any part of that posters post that I want to. I can’t fix the root problems.

[stillvicarinatutu]

@WouldUShouldI

People need to realise social workers, support workers etc don't have the power to section people and remove them from public places only the police can do this on a section 136 under the mental health act this is why the police are called and not social workers with no powers @Nidan2Sandan

No - but not everyone who self harms needs to be s136 - some would happily go for treatment voluntarily. But the police are used to deal , transport and sit with them to ensure they don't disappear. That's not the polices remit . Yes if it's a s136 situation- a proper one . Fine .

[FayeGovan]

@jeaux90

The police spend too much time on non crime hate incidents, wagging fingers at people because someone got offended.

What % of time was spent on that category?

How do you know this??

Where's the proof?

[Relevanceiskey]

@ChilliBandit

But the same could be said for you. If you believe the police can do no wrong then nothing will change for the better. Your view of the police is heavily warped because of your husband.

@ChilliBandit sorry? I am happy to criticise if permitted, which is obvious from a previous post of mine. I am happy to take someone at face value regardless of their profession instead of illogically tarring everyone with the same brush. I think you are projecting, as its clear you dislike the police regardless of what they do.

[CPL593H]

@stillvicarinatutu I know and I agree. I spent many, many years in frontline social services and saw the laborious reports from police officers who had clearly been doing ad hoc emergency social work (much of it very good, but that's not the point)

The police are having to backfill MH services and while on occasion they will need to be there for safety reasons, it shouldn't be on them in the way it is. I've talked about it with my DH who was a copper in the 60s and while there was always a bit of a "social welfare" element, it was nothing like this.

As far as abolishing the police goes; I'm sure all the burglars, bank robbers (etc) who do not have any kind of mental health needs would thoroughly endorse this.