To all those wondering why police aren't investigating crime

I didn't disbelieve it at all, I simply said the majority of hate related incidents I had experience with did have a crime attached to it.

I said that I do not deal with what youre referencing as part of my role, which I don't.

I also think trying to police people's thoughts is wrong and just plain ridiculous.

Yet people like you are always the first to call 999 if someone looks at you the wrong way

I've watched this thread with my head in my hands but this is simply not true.

Yes CPS make the decision but this is only on cases the police put forward to them. It is the responsibility of the police to investigate and there is a whole toolkit and training on consent to assist in building a case.

This is very simplistic and there are many reasons for a low conviction rate.
Many victim survivors don't want a criminal justice outcome, some have had their experience reported by a professional or loved one.
However it is the duty of the police to protect the public and the latest research is that men who commit rape are already known on systems and continue their pattern of behaviour.

Instead of bleating what are the police supposed to do, being defensive, raise your head and look at what's actually going on. There are huge strides forward in not digitally strip searching victims by going through phones and medical records etc, improving quality of interviews of victims

You would be exasperated with me then. I’m now a Sgt and I try and ensure all my officers can get some kind of break as their welfare is extremely important to me.

still not getting it. Sgt? with such little understanding.
Again: the issue isn't that they get a coffee.I'm fine with them getting coffee - in fact get a donut too. I am perfectly happy to see the police walking around in pairs, popping into shops being visible and doing the community policing thing.

If you can't understand that someone who has had to call the police 4 times as a result of 4 separate crimes, with nary a visit then sees a cop getting a coffee and it irritates them, then we have a bigger problem than i thought.

Someone upthread said: perception. You lot seemingly don't get it and i give up. Whatever. The police in the UK are seriously underfunded and stretched, and yet you have a sergeant totally failing to understand this one small issue even when it is cut up into bite-sized pieces for them.

So you mean drug drivers? Oh yeah, hardly a crime at all 🙄

Rubbish
Inspectors can make the decision as it still has to pass the full code test

I'm also an officer currently working in domestic abuse. In my team an average of 76% of our incidents are NON crime.

In the last week here are several examples of victims I've dealt with who have called these jobs into the police, worryingly, often on 999.



Two teenage sons have an argument over a phone charger on the landing. No violence. Mum calls police.


My father doesn't approve over my choice of husband as thinks he doesn't earn enough, please can I have a restraining order


Drunk couple have argument in pub over one wanting to stay longer than the other and when returning home he stumbles into a garden ornament breaking it. Please take my statement for 'criminal damage '

Ex couple exchange a bag of their children's belongings at a doorstep. Female closes door in his face after taking bag. He DEMANDS we send this job to the CPS now!



It is never ending and truly pathetic some of the things we hear. When we are dealing with this stupid bullshit we are not stopping actual domestic murders from happening.

People need to get a fucking grip of their lives and stop calling us for every little thing.


The Mumsnet 'just call to log it' is HUGELY unhelpful and adds to the idea that things that are simply not police matters actually are.

I'm very happy for the police to nick people for smoking weed. Have you been in downtown Sheffield recently? They don't call the people down there zombies for nothing. I wish the police would nick a few of those, they might be sent in the direction of the help they so clearly need.

Of course the police can be sexist and racist, the whole of society is. And believe it or not - police officers are just members of society. Tackle it from the root, ie the whole country.

The police should be held to higher standards. And yes you may have a hijabi on your shift. Bully for you. I do have friends in the police, sevral of whom went through several years in the army with me. So when they tell me "blimey, Bref, it's worse than when we were in X camp" i believe them. And i can work out how bad it is. And yes, when the press are showing us the WhatsApp messages it is no good you all saying "a few bad apples" because it isn't is it? It is all the people who know and turn a blind eye for whatever reason (and when that reason is fear of retaliation when they are the whistleblower i totally get it. Much sympathy)

I don't know too many senior officers, only one inspector as it happens, but he always votes tory and always moans about resources. I had assumed an inspector would have to have a bit of the smarts, maybe he's an odd one out?

The only dealings i have had recently with the british police (Met and South Yorkshire) have been good. I get what the issues are. And i get that you're all a tad defensive and touchy. But look at it from the punters' pov for a change, and it takes on a whole other hue.

As it turns out, i wasn't tall enough to join the police, which made me sad at the time. Seeing how the force has been hollowed out and stretched thin makes me glad i didn't do yoga in the hope of getting taller so i could get in. But i look at things like the non-resignation over several issues of senior officers like Cressida Dick, and her arrogance, i'm not surprised it trickles down.

So again: breaks, fine. Coffee, fine. Having proper rest and leave, fine. Hopefully someone to take care of mental health and all the rest. Good training, employment prospects and a pension. I can also handle relatively early retirement. But what i find hard to swallow is the "we're always right and you're always wrong" mentality that exudes.

Because people call in threatening suicide or members of the public see or hear a distressed person. Mentally unwell people walk into traffic, climb over parroted on bridges and so on. The police have a duty of care they can’t choose to ignore a distressed or ill person. Lots of MH crises happen at night and it’s often the police that get called first and get there first.

The Mumsnet 'just call to log it' is HUGELY unhelpful and adds to the idea that things that are simply not police matters actually are.

completely agree with you here. It is mental what we see people say should be "called in and logged"

And yet. And yet. How many women are going to be murdered by a violent, already known to police for violence, harassment and stalking, ex-partner before someone on the force finally admits that law-enforcement in this respect is sorely lacking? And that if there are any areas that really need improvement, this would be a relatively easy win?

They also have powers that other agencies simply do not have. They can section 136 someone from a public place. Paramedics, or a couple of nurses can not do that.

I was watching Ambulance on tv last night & they were making much the same points. :-(

Don't take even more of my money subsidising the wastrels and rif-raf of society who don't bother.

Lovely attitude to have towards people who are ILL!

I'm generally supportive of the police having friends and family in the service, but quite honestly even they are now complaining about being expected to spend too much of their time dealing with situations that are petty considering their v ltd time and resources - illegal bill posting, very minor disputes online, v minor incidents of shoplifting...

But yes I also agree the heart of the issue is serious underfunding of the nhs and social care as well as the police themselves. If you STILL need this pointed out to you (which i despair if voters do) the tories DON'T GIVE A FUCK!

As long as they and theirs are sheltered from the consequences of such decisions they couldn't give less of a shit! They think like the poster I quoted - that the mentally ill, addicts, homeless people are the "dregs of society" and they don't think they are deserving of any help at all.

I have severe ocd, depression and anxiety, I've been homeless too through zero fault of my own and that applies to all who are mentally ill or homeless too.

Stop accepting this, tell your Mp, your msp or similar for those in devolved nations and also local councillors that this is not acceptable and that next election you will be voting for the candidate that wholeheartedly and genuinely agrees and will do all they can to change this!

It's the only language these uncaring bastards understand - losing votes!

And yes police officers who have voted Tory should keep their traps shut and do better next election.

every incident created is attended

Op that's bullshit! In the last 5 years I've reported a number of CRIMES - break ins, open drug dealing on the street, assaults even an arson - zero attendance by police!

What HAS been attended that I'm aware of? A report of a dog barking - in the day time not for a long period of time, "shoplifting" of a small chocolate bar from a corner shop - by a toddler! Shopkeeper had noticed harassed mum hadn't storm in a teacup NO need for police involvement there at all, report of "harassment" on sm someone had posted on Facebook about a neighbours repeated loud parties (which the police never attended reports of either!) and the party throwing neighbours called the police to complain and the police did attend - your priorities on this kind of thing are ALL WRONG and I think it's of no surprise that the complainants were all "friendly" with local police officers in various ways!

Even the police officers I know admit NOT every incident is attended now so come off it!

We do try to get to every incident that's created and there is the back pedalling

And don't even get me started on the number of times non white friends and family of mine are stopped and searched for NO REASON - a regular occurrence

@Brefugee I agree policing of football, concerts etc should come out of organisers profits

Unless I feel I'm in danger personally I don't even bother reporting anything now it's pointless! And I strongly suspect many feel as I do!

Poverty, addiction and mental illness are the main causes of crime. If crime prevention is the desire then these issues have to be addressed - instead we have a Tory "good for the economy" ha!! Govt that in the last few DAYS Damn near completely bankrupted the entire fucking country!

Oh I forgot the police also attended the vigil or Sarah Everard and brutally arrested the women peacefully showing their respects

Another excellent point

How should the government/police get a grip on drug problems?

They shouldn't! It's entirely the wrong approach to the problem which is a health issue not a public order/crime one. We've tried to address it as a crime issue for DECADES very unsuccessfully - in countries where it's treated as a HEALTH issue they have a better success rate in reducing addiction generally and dealing with the consequences of addiction.

encouraging, socially, things like stable families with two parents, discouraging young women from having babies from different fathers and relying on the state to fund them

Are you kidding?! Have you even noticed that in that supremely sexist statement you've put ZERO responsibility on the FATHERS? Which is exactly what the govt fails to do too!

brutally arrested?! I saw no brutal arrests

then I would suggest perhaps you need to look again as a court has upheld that they DID behave poorly then and they SHOULD be called to account for that!

The Met have hardly showered themselves in glory the past few years have they.

Totally agree

They can't be that bloody busy if they've got time to come out to my house for that shit

Exactly! Very poor prioritisation on too many cases

The Tories came into a situation where there was no money though.

Bollocks - that was a long standing treasury in joke they used to try and deflect how Fucking clueless they actually are economically. It's now been shown that even historically the tories borrowed and wasted far more money than labour ever have! And I'm not a die hard labour voter but that's fact

The money for services IS there but it's being GIVEN to the wealthy to try and buy votes and support - which is what tories ALWAYS do when they see they are unlikely to win the next election.

Thatcher funded this with privatisation - look how well that's gone! Not!

@ted27 you are describing actual crimes which should be attended and are NOT the kind of incidents myself and others are saying SHOULDN'T be attended at all

It is on the police to show the public they are competent and not a bunch of twats. It is up to the government to fund the pollice properly.

Yep!

Funding affects their ability to do the job yes, but so do attitudes and prejudices. The sexism and racism still rife in the service seriously needs to be addressed unapologetically

And even now, this new budget will need immense further cuts on top of all the cuts already to try and balance the books

NO

we need a govt that stops giving loads of money to people who already HAVE loads of money and don't bloody need it! Then the money to fund services will be available.

@Ladybug9 if you HAD read the thread (and not doing so but commenting is imo is arrogant) you'd see many of us are not commenting merely on "perception" but on personal experience!

@Psychonabike are you genuinely trying to say you don't class addiction as a health issue and a Mh one at that? I find that shockingly prejudicial from someone claiming to work in Mh - but I'm also not entirely surprised given my experience with Mh staff too - and I'm not an addict but I've been bluntly blamed for my own Mental illness by so called experts

I've never found it misogynistic, or racist . We have a Muslim woman who wears a hijab on shift

Wow!

How to show they're racist without saying they're racist - ONE Muslim woman, so rare it's notable even by you, swathes of white men in the service though, commonly acknowledged that the police as an institute has huge issues with racism. "I'm not racist I've one non white friend" good grief!!

I certainly didn't see any discrimination against women victims

There are none so blind...

It's utterly pointless reporting a rape in the uk especially if it were perpetrated by the victims' partner or former partner

But no - fingers in ears singling "la la la not listening there's no sexism to victims of crime here" - bet you haven't the guts to say which force op as I suspect if you did there'd be a flurry of examples of where your force has fucked up in terms of racism and sexism I've yet to come across a uk force where that isn't the case!

And women can be and are sexist too op!

You know all the criticisms about low conviction number for rape etc are not the police not investigating them

Except you are wrong as that IS part of the reason for low prosecution and conviction rates! That too has been officially acknowledged!

Who looks at what chance there is on realistically getting a conviction in court

Which is at least in part based on the results of police investigations, there have been a number of cases where we now know the police did a half arsed job investigating certain sex crimes IF they investigated at all - there are well known cases where police officers literally told victims to stop bothering them/wasting their time - so more disingenuous denial by you op.

Not all rapes are "he said she said" and if the victim/victims are children then consent is not possible anyway

and the latest research is that men who commit rape are already known on systems and continue their pattern of behaviour.

I appreciate the research may help to make those who SHOULD have been acting anyway do so, surely this is stating the bleeding obvious?!

Comes back to the pp who said beat cops used to KNOW the local criminal element and to a degree kept them in check by making their presence felt. Now more than ever it's victims are expected to temper THEIR behaviour.

Yes the police are seriously underfunded BUT they also have service wide issues with attitude, prioritisation, racism, sexism and homophobia which MUST be addressed.

The measure of a country is how it treats its vulnerable, the UK is a shit show

Interesting perspective of you and them
Again vicar.

I am a serving detective so am well aware of all the issues and I don't think you are representing Uk policing well with your defensiveness. This is your perspective.
I know from colleagues in the very large force I work for that many of them are on mn but don't disclose their occupation and choose not to engage out of work hours, mainly for sanity and a break from work.

Policing has been a perfect storm that's been waiting to happen. I won't rehearse why.

However, "we" police by consent and at the moment the public are very pissed off with us.
So we need to suck it up, do our job as we have done to bring people to justice and safeguard the public.

There is loads of good work and hundreds of thousands of brilliant officers and staff.
But being defensive doesn't help "we" need to listen

Policing of football does come out of the football clubs pocket - around the footprint anyway.

My police relatives vote Tory too and then complain about cuts to services. I don't get it......

🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻

@Justasmallgless - Thank you, this gives me a smidgeon of hope. I only hope there are more like you.

Totally agree

The police officers I know mostly "get it" 2 vote Tory and are utter arseholes tbh - these 2 are the higher ranking officers I know! And I also KNOW they are sexist and racist (ya can't choose family!)

The other 4 are generally decent people who acknowledge there are issues within the service at the moment and that the NOT so few bad apples need weeding out.

These officers I know work across 4 different forces in 2 uk countries it is not just certain forces or countries imo

I genuinely get where Vicar is coming from and being on front line shift after shift is exhausting and debilitating. It is also causing compassion fatigue because there is little in terms of clinical supervision and diffusion of what you see and deal with. It's a bloody h&S disgrace if you ask me and this is why cops shut down.

However it is the whole justice system and public services that have been systematically underfunded and we need to do the basics properly.

That's means turning up to the right jobs, locking bad people up and looking after people who need us.

The hate incident v hate crime online is a rabbit hole I can't go down tonight! After a hell of a fortnight on duty

@Graphista the irony. The only one who sounds arrogant is you, you really have no idea. Have you ever worked in the police or volunteered with them? I cannot emphasise enough how important it is before criticising police that you do this, education is everything and it'll be such an eye opener when you have a radio attached to you and you're expected to drive around all night responding responding people who are violent and abusive and the public constantly berate you for being a monster just for the uniform you wear. I won't be returning to this thread but please give it some thought, not many people join the police and put themselves in danger every single day because they're a thug wanting to do a bad job and don't want to detect crime. Also, the police is made up of all different backgrounds and walks of life, as I say experience of them and what they face day in day out will help you to see this.

It's the police who attend because it is only the police who have a statutory power to do something.

I'm a social worker and beyond saying "please don't jump, please get in the ambulance, please don't kill yourself, we can help" I have 0 power to actually stop them/ get them in the ambulance. Neither do the paramedics. Only the police can physically touch/ restrain them. Only the police can force them to hospital.