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AIBU?

To all those wondering why police aren't investigating crime

268 replies

stillvicarinatutu · 30/09/2022 13:35

Prompted by a discussion on here.

I'm a police officer and today we received an email from out chief constable to say that only 17% of incidents police in our force attend are for crime .

The other 83% are non crime related - mainly mental health issues. Police forces are now taking on the work of other agencies which means that they are not dealing with crime .

Partner agencies are so stretched the fall out is now being dealt with by police because we don't shut shop, don't only work 9-5 , and cannot say no .

I read and see regularly that police are criticised for not dealing with crime .

Well - this is why . Because we are picking up the slack from mental health, social services and medical incidents.

I think it's time for people to decide what they want from their police . If we weren't dealing with the 83 % of incidents that are not crime related then perhaps we could spend more time on the 17% that are . ?
I don't think people realise that this is happening to this extent .

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Relevanceiskey · 30/09/2022 16:01

@ChilliBandit maybe with overtime, which is the equivalent of someone with a 9-5 getting another job. Lots of people especially families dont have that extra time. My dad is on 42 and he has worked in the police for 25 years.

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Brefugee · 30/09/2022 16:01

the fact that there are members of the police who would actually take those pictures, tells me the police have to do far far better in recruiting better candidates.

And that they need to have much more of a grip of behaviours, and make reporting this kind of behaviour (and all the whatsapp stuff etc that came out of the Everard thing) to higher-ups.

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stillvicarinatutu · 30/09/2022 16:02

Brefugee · 30/09/2022 15:58

The flack that police get is unbelievable and it’s not because they are all crap at their jobs it’s because of the reasons outlined by the OP.

that is not entirely true. And while OP says it's not their force, but this is what sticks in a lot of people's minds (not saying it's right, just that it does happen)

the optics of the police painting their cars in the flag of one protected characteristic to the exclusion of all others (where the colourful public support on police cars for the disabled, for example?) and patting leather-clad 'pup play' fetishists or dancing the Macarena at Pride parades and - worse than either of those things - turning up at people's homes and workplaces to "check their thinking" for tweeting a limerick or a photo of some ribbon

So i think one of the first things the police really ought to be doing is to stop berating the public for "using them wrongly" while these things are being so prominently posted. Back to basics. Visible presence where they can be a deterrent to low-level spontaneous crime, etc etc.

I fully agree with you on this .

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AntlerRose · 30/09/2022 16:03

Yes, my sons safety plan, developed by CAHMS has 'call the police' on it in certain situations.

What we actually want is therapy for ptsd but austerity.

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Relevanceiskey · 30/09/2022 16:04

@Brefugee security checks take 3 months and they dive as deep as digging into your family members and any partners you have lived with. Aside from letting them go through your personal messages, there isn't much else you can do.

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LivingMyBestLie · 30/09/2022 16:04

That percentage is skewed by the fact that police choose not to investigate all crime. Burglary for example, may as well be made legal.

And I don't believe those figures anyway. How are they recorded domestic abuse crimes? Hate crimes? They're much more common than I expect your stats account for.

Never believe any stats at face value.

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stillvicarinatutu · 30/09/2022 16:06

LivingMyBestLie · 30/09/2022 16:04

That percentage is skewed by the fact that police choose not to investigate all crime. Burglary for example, may as well be made legal.

And I don't believe those figures anyway. How are they recorded domestic abuse crimes? Hate crimes? They're much more common than I expect your stats account for.

Never believe any stats at face value.

These are the stats for my force - not nationally. And we do investigate burglary- we have a burglary squad .

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Brefugee · 30/09/2022 16:07

security checks take 3 months and they dive as deep as digging into your family members and any partners you have lived with. Aside from letting them go through your personal messages, there isn't much else you can do.

@Relevanceiskey then they need to be better vetted in the first place, and monitored while serving.

I had a job where i was vetted constantly. Deeply deeply. And it was constantly under review. And one false step on my part? Disciplinary and out on my ear. Even if it isn't true, you must admit the perception of the vetting isn't good if behavours that have been revealed are prevelant and, more importantly, ignored.

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TortugaRumCakeQueen · 30/09/2022 16:07

My DH is a Police Officer. There are so many calls now from people with mental health problems, that it's becoming unsustainable. Lots of people who can't manage their own lives, take no responsibility for themselves, everything needs to be spoon fed, and everything is someone else's fault. Can't imagine how these people would cope, if they had to face what the Ukrainians have. Or of they had to live through WW1 or WW2.

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DeeCeeCherry · 30/09/2022 16:08

I think it's time for people to decide what they want from their police

The problem is 'people' being blamed, 'people' being asked to come up with a solution - When its the Government that need to be lobbied. The government that must take this serious issue in hand, and must be called to sit down at the table with the Police and these agencies, sort this mess out. If thats not happening then, why?

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WhatALoadOfWankyness · 30/09/2022 16:13

I feel your frustration @stillvicarinatutu , all services are having to deal in areas they're not really qualified to deal with , I'm including schools in that
There is no support , its just a babysitting service

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Scoobyblue · 30/09/2022 16:14

I have been a victim of crime several times. The police have never ever shown up. I have no confidence in the ability of the police to solve or prevent crime. The only time I ever see the police is buying coffee in the coffee shop. I have completely lost faith in the police as an institution.

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ChilliBandit · 30/09/2022 16:14

@Relevanceiskey - but they did do wrong at the Sarah Everard vigil. They lost a court case over it and have been refused right to appeal twice. I have also criticised my local police’s response to matters I have personally reported. I have also acknowledged a lot of it comes from lack of resources. I am not blindly criticising them for nothing. I have also several times sent emails to my local police praising them for situations I’ve witnessed, being in A&E was one of those times when I observed the police patiently dealing with people in psychosis. I do think they need reform and I do think they should be held accountable where there are issues. I don’t think that’s controversial. The Met in particular seem to have a lot of issues with misogyny as also shown with Sarah Everard/ the Charing Cross station texts. I know there are police officers who do incredible work and I know there are some right twats. I’m related to some of both. The problem is the twats also have the same power as the nice ones and they are doing huge damage. Especially those setting the cultures at the top.

I also don’t know what to say about salaries, those are my experiences from forces around the SE. I also work lots of overtime, sometimes 25 hours of it unpaid. It’s definitely a perk believe me to have paid overtime.

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Thegroaninggurner · 30/09/2022 16:14

Florenz · 30/09/2022 14:14

The police need to prioritise properly. I know they're underfunded but fighting crime should always be the priority for the police force.

Priority is saving lives quire often the police are having to do section 136's which means lots of time spent at the hospital with patients as they can't just be left, there can be a large amount of officers at the hospital with sucidal patients which then means they are not on the streets, Because mental health services are so underfunded the police have to chose either save a sucidal person or visit someone who had their house robbed and saving a life comes first! Perhaps if the government funded the services properly we would not be in this predicament.

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Relevanceiskey · 30/09/2022 16:15

@Brefugee they can't vet them any more than that. Also they are vetted constantly. But with all the complaints they get it's hard to figure out which ones are legitimate. If they sacked everyone who had a complaint they wouldn't have a police force. My sister has 2 complaints against her at the moment 1 of which has been disproved with video evidence but is STILL going through the motions, the other has multiple civilian witnesses against the complainant (a known criminal) but it will still likely take a year to finish. How do you rectify that? It's not the same as 'one thing and I'm out on my arse' because there are MANY reasons to falsely accuse them of something.

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stillvicarinatutu · 30/09/2022 16:16

DeeCeeCherry · 30/09/2022 16:08

I think it's time for people to decide what they want from their police

The problem is 'people' being blamed, 'people' being asked to come up with a solution - When its the Government that need to be lobbied. The government that must take this serious issue in hand, and must be called to sit down at the table with the Police and these agencies, sort this mess out. If thats not happening then, why?

I'm not blaming "people " but it's us that vote and it's us that vote governments in that are and have decimated our public services. I'm trying to highlight what many people not working in these services know and what the population who don't work in them may not be aware of .

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whingewhinge · 30/09/2022 16:17

I work in mental health. We used to have a service where we worked alongside the police to manage these cases. It stopped being funded.

We're desperately trying to survive in mental health too, we don't want you to do our jobs either but we have no choice, we aren't funded well enough to do better than we're doing.

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Macaroni1924 · 30/09/2022 16:18

MangyInseam · 30/09/2022 15:57

I just really think we need to stop and consider to what extent this is about staffing cuts.

You are right, teachers, police, etc were not having to do so much back in the day.

But when we stop and think - ok, who was doing this stuff, in a lot of cases the answer was no one was.

To use a very mundane example, large numbers of kids were not going to get speech therapy. Teachers weren't screening for it in the same way either.

There seems to be two types of things: problems that existed before but which people, to a larger degree, just took as normal. And then other problems which did not exist to the same degree. And then I think a smaller sub set of things, like more institutionalized people, where now they have not much support. (And not that institutionalization should be the answer for most.)

SO to me the real questions are around where these social problems are coming from, and to what extent maybe we are asking too much of the state in some cases to solve issues they really have no capacity to solve.

@MangyInseam this is a very good point. Intakes in schools whether mainstream or ASN are changing. Behavioural needs and mental health needs are at the forefront and these children are the adults of the future. Training in nurture and Adverse Childhood Experiences give a great insight into how difficult things can be for some families. The statistics are eye opening.

To all those wondering why police aren't investigating crime
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stillvicarinatutu · 30/09/2022 16:21

The other thing is I have sympathy with mh issues - the police aren't immune.

Several of my colleagues have committed suicide- 2 alone in the past year.

I've been shot at , bitten, had to use pava against a 22 year old after he drunk 11 cans of lager and wanted a fight , dealt with hundreds of deaths including babies, sat murder scenes with the body still there , stood out all night on scenes , twice I've had to drive home on a plastic bag because I was on a period and could t get to a toilet . I've gone full shifts without a cup of tea or a loo break - so if you do see a cop buying a coffee - please remember we are human too and that coffee might be the only one they get that day - if they get to drink it before the next shout .

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willingtolearn · 30/09/2022 16:22

@Nidan2Sandan It's not just the police that some people to expect to solve all their problems.

It's that they always expect SOMEONE ELSE to solve their problems.

Police, teachers, GP, Social Workers, government, family, friends, other taxpayers - as long as it's not them.

Yes, some people need help. But you cannot help someone who will not help themselves - not in drug addiction, not in mental health, not in physical health, not in debt, not in employment or issues with their housing.

You have to do some of the work yourself. Even if that feels impossible it is necessary.

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Namedifferentorquestion · 30/09/2022 16:23

Over the last 12 years of this government social care including mental health services have been badly underfunded. The knock on effect @stillvicarinatutu is that police forces, the NHS and other bodies are dealing with an increase in call outs. Doctors are also stretched and so patients cannot see them. Many end up with the police or A&E when they should have been seen by the appropriate service.

Unfortunately, whilst this despicable government continue to ignore the issues and instead issue a mini budget aimed to cut mainly taxes to the very well off then it will get worse.

Enough people need to actually vote for change rather than just moan and do nothing.

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Brefugee · 30/09/2022 16:25

How do you rectify that? It's not the same as 'one thing and I'm out on my arse' because there are MANY reasons to falsely accuse them of something.

I am talking specifically about other officers reporting on the fuckers like Couzens. How can someone like him work in the police with the nickname and background he had? That is what i mean. What's app groups with vile sexist stuff and "jokes" selfies with bodies. People know this is going on but aren't reporting for some reason. Or if they are (countless female officers have talked about this) nothing is done or the complainant is bullied out of the force.

I have worked in uniform, i know how it is, but the reputational damage? Will not be fixed. I now it's not the remit of this post, but were i still in the UK? I would think more than twice about calling in the police if i had been raped or attackd.

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Namedifferentorquestion · 30/09/2022 16:26

@whingewhinge

"I work in mental health. We used to have a service where we worked alongside the police to manage these cases. It stopped being funded."

Lots of services that were really necessary went thanks to this government over the last 12 years. We are seeing the results which grow by the month. The country is in a mess and the government twiddle with tax cuts.... it's dreadful but not enough people seem to do anything to change it - how bad must it get before people actually realise what a mess this country is in.

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Dinneronmybfpillow · 30/09/2022 16:26

Rinoachicken · 30/09/2022 15:55

In some areas of the country, ambulance, police, mental health and A&E have teamed up and created dedicated teams set up to respond to MH crises and ‘regular service users’. Instead of playing ‘pass the bomb’ between services they instead work together to support these people and so reduce the impact on all the services.

I think this should be funded more and rolled across the country. They are called High Intensity Partnerships.

www.sabp.nhs.uk/our-services/mental-health/shipp

We have this too. They go out together and discharge at scene almost all of the call outs. Reducing escalations in situations, use of 136 and A&E attendance.
We also have a MH drop-in which even when closed to the public in short staffing, the police can use as a priority.
We have a 136 suite that is fully staffed by MH staff and officers don't stay with the patient once there.
If they drop someone at A&E (often without medical need, other than MH which could be met at the drop-in much quicker and in a nicer environment), they don't stay with the patient.

Not sure how we're meant to jump in when people are on bridges/have weapons etc. Nurses and social workers have no legal powers to detain people/stop traffic and we have only have our teeny weeny badges to protect ourselves.

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BlueMongoose · 30/09/2022 16:28

stillvicarinatutu · 30/09/2022 14:27

What I'm saying is for every 100 incidents called in to the police only 17 of those are for actual crimes - it's not that we are only attending 17% - it's that only 17% of the calls for our service are crime related.

I found your post interesting, even I was surprised at it, and I've observed for some time the police responding less and less to things like fraud, theft, and burglary, for example.
It just goes to show that we need not just to fund the police properly, which currently we aren't, but the NHS and other services- like local authority services. You can't do as the tories have done and cut 40% of funding to local authorities, as they did even before covid, and still expect them to be able to fund social services and so on to the same extent, and the NHS was facing large increases in waiting lists under the tories ( at least a doubling) well before covid too. But this is what people voted for, sadly.

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