Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Neo pronouns

174 replies

Sparklybutold · 28/09/2022 23:49

Last year - colleague was they/them, now per/pers.

So, are they a load of crap and will hopefully disappear soon or time for change and respect for peoples choices.

OP posts:
Original poster
Sparklybutold · 29/09/2022 09:40

@EugeneLevysEyebrow

I think you make a good point

OP posts:
SofiaSoFar · 29/09/2022 09:41

If there's one single thing the Tory party might be good for it's taking on this sort of lefty bollocks.

But we will see...

Original poster
Sparklybutold · 29/09/2022 09:41

@Cosycover

Kitten pronouns? How did that read

OP posts:
candycaneframe · 29/09/2022 09:44

Nyfluff · 29/09/2022 01:11

Pronouns used to refer to biological sex, which happens before birth and is lifelong, so I don't understand. Pronouns are used by other people, based off what sex someone appears to be, it somewhat sort of belongs to the describer as a means to refer to someone else. Often there's no communication between parties to stipulate a made up preference precisely because it serves the describer and is therefore irrelevant to the wanna be mythical creature. If someone wants to be something else (like a mythical creature), they still can't make other people believe it's true or force them to deny reality. We'd probably develop mental illnesses if we had to start denying reality on a regular basis. It's gaslighting? If the person is present then you usually use their name.

E.g. Assistant Cathy works in a clothes shop. Mum is shopping with her child and points to Cathy and says to child "ask her for X size". Cathy has a unicorn headband on but is clearly a woman. How can Cathy insist the mum refered to them as Unicorn, just because she wants to be one, as both mum and child see she's a woman in a headband. The mum and child use Her, because it's a term with shared meaning in both their experiences of reality. When there is no shared meaning and a pronoun differs from reality, you're causing a mindfuck and damaging communication.

Being autistic can make you feel different to the stereotypes of your sex, but you are still aware of what genitalia you have and what sex you are. It's bloody insulting to suggest you use something else just because people think you're so different to 'normal' men/women, how fucking ableist and distorted.

Pronouns haven't correlated to biological sex since the 60's so not sure why so many are still stuck on this point since it's hardly a new thing.

The amount of pronouns used now is new, but to sit and claim you're confused by something that's been changing for the past 60 years is a bit odd.

Original poster
Sparklybutold · 29/09/2022 09:46

@candycaneframe I think more often than not they have

OP posts:
BreadInCaptivity · 29/09/2022 09:50

Personally I don't think it's healthy to need/expect/demand that other people validate your self perception/presentation.

Equally, I don't understand why I'm obligated to make other people feel comfortable re: how I describe them (when not even in their presence) at the experience of my own mental comfort.

It's all very well saying it's about being nice/kind etc but I don't think it's very nice to compel other people to lie and to uphold an ideology they don't believe in.

So no, I'm not inclined to indulge people who want to be ze/they/per or whatever. I'll just use their name.

TheFreaksShallInheritTheEarth · 29/09/2022 09:52

Pronouns haven't correlated to biological sex since the 60's

Utter rubbish.

lifeturnsonadime · 29/09/2022 09:55

To all who think that respecting pronouns is a harmless act. It isn't.

It has led to a man, a pedophile who assaulted and raped several children, being sentenced to 20 years in a women's prison because he now 'identifies' as a woman.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11193987/Judge-sends-serial-sex-abuser-born-man-not-legally-recognised-female-womens-jail.html

And then Sussex Police had the nerve to accused women who complained about this man being put in a women's prison of hate crimes.

news.sky.com/story/sussex-police-apologises-for-telling-people-not-to-make-hateful-comments-about-transgender-sex-offender-12706559

So to all who say we should respect pronouns, do you include calling this pedophile she?

Because this is where it leads.

Edgeof35 · 29/09/2022 09:58

Pronouns haven't correlated to biological sex since the 60's

Of course they have. Don't be disingenuous.

BaileySharp · 29/09/2022 09:58

In a work environment I would try to go along with it if I thought there was risk of being disciplined or fired by not joining in. I would internally assume the person asking me to use such pronouns was a narcissistic idiot however.

ofwarren · 29/09/2022 10:05

I remember seeing emoji pronouns on twitter. So people saying their pronouns are something like 🐈/🐰
Very obviously people who never talk to others offline.

I'm also ND and struggle with pronouns. I'm GC so obviously think it's all a load of bollocks but I do worry that I'm going to slip up when talking to people face to face as I have a tendency to just use 'he' for everyone. I dont mean to do it, it just comes out. I've always done it.

Autistics commonly do a thing called pronoun reversal where they get mixed up with 'me and you', like my profoundly autistic brother will say "you went to the cafe didn't you" when he means HE went, not me. I'm assuming my issue is something along those lines too. I never do it when writing but it happens when talking, at least once a week.

SwordToFlamethrower · 29/09/2022 10:05

Is this person a biological male or female?

SwordToFlamethrower · 29/09/2022 10:06

WallaceinAnderland · 29/09/2022 01:14

Why 2 threads on same subject OP?

Two perspectives. One from regular people and one from a strictly gc feminist stance. I get it!

DontSuitAJumpsuit · 29/09/2022 10:10

Pronouns haven't correlated to biological sex since the 60's

What?

Beamur · 29/09/2022 10:30

If anyone is curious as to why the Canadian teacher with the enormous fake boobs is an issue pop over to the feminist boards.
Let's say it seems likely that they are not entirely genuine in their actions. The why goes to the heart of this discussion. Is it just 'polite' to use requested pronouns or can it be misused by people not acting in good faith.

OneTC · 29/09/2022 10:36

Is from 4chan or similar but...

Neo pronouns
LeakyTapTap · 29/09/2022 10:37

Butitsnotfunnyisititsserious · 29/09/2022 05:32

Googled this after reading your post. Hmmm. Made me smile; not my idea of a good look; but not my body; not my choice. What makes you so concerned and angry about this?

I hope you're joking. Teaching children like that is perverse. That man should not be allowed anywhere near children.

I agree - due to various things, I'd have been extremely uncomfortable being taught by someone like that when I was a kid!

Original poster
Sparklybutold · 29/09/2022 10:49

@ofwarren thank-you for your insight. I hadn't thought about the impact on the extra cognitive space required by some people who are ND. I wonder whether this plays into my own confusion and unease with the whole thing.

OP posts:
Original poster
Sparklybutold · 29/09/2022 10:49

@SwordToFlamethrower

Biological male (I think) but often gets misgendered as she.

OP posts:
Original poster
Sparklybutold · 29/09/2022 10:50

@SwordToFlamethrower

Yes - exactly it - thank you.

OP posts:
VickyEadieofThigh · 29/09/2022 10:52

Sparklybutold · 29/09/2022 00:48

@Pixiedust1234 from my Googling thus far neopronouns have been around for centuries. They tend to be used by non binary people who don't identify with they/ them - so per/pets or xe/xie (I may be spelling these wrong) may feel more appropriate for 'them'

Really? Because I'm 64 and have only come across this (not in person, only reported on social media) in the past few years.

VickyEadieofThigh · 29/09/2022 10:54

candycaneframe · 29/09/2022 09:44

Pronouns haven't correlated to biological sex since the 60's so not sure why so many are still stuck on this point since it's hardly a new thing.

The amount of pronouns used now is new, but to sit and claim you're confused by something that's been changing for the past 60 years is a bit odd.

Show quote history

I'm 64. Your claim is nonsense.

FrancescaContini · 29/09/2022 11:05

DontSuitAJumpsuit · 29/09/2022 10:10

Pronouns haven't correlated to biological sex since the 60's

What?

😂

FrancescaContini · 29/09/2022 11:08

KvotheTheBloodless · 29/09/2022 08:32

FFS. I'm happy to use preferred pronouns where a transwoman wants to be called "she", or a transman wants to be called "he", but it is absolute bollocks to call a person "they" - self-absorbed, I'm-so-special nonsense. Literally nobody fits completely neatly into society's ideals of masculine or feminine, that doesn't make people into neither a man nor a woman. If we all went by non-binary ideals, every single one of us would be non-binary.

Wouldn’t even do this. It’s compelled speech.

rosiepozis · 29/09/2022 11:20

Sparklybutold · 29/09/2022 00:21

Did just cole across this in my googling which I thought was interesting in terms of perspective and insight.

‘Many people have argued that neopronouns relating to a theme such as animals or mystic creatures are comforting for neurodivergent people to use. This is because neurodivergent people, especially those on the autistic spectrum, tend to have trouble understanding and relating to societal norms and social constructs. Therefore, since gender has been found to be a social construct, they may have a complicated relationship with their gender identity.’

I’m autistic.

I’ve always just thought gender = sex and sex is immutable. Never struggled with knowing that I’m a woman, or that other people are men and women.

I think the higher rates of autism etc in trans identified people is more due to them wanting to be accepted, and here’s a community that will accept whatever you come out with, than not understanding how sex/gender works.